Subject:
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Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 24 May 2000 23:11:38 GMT
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Viewed:
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972 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Ed Jones writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
>
> > It doesn't change a thing. A very simple example - if, according to you and
> > LAR,
>
> ED: My name is Lar, not LAR. By spelling it or capitalizing it in a way that I
> don't choose, you are trying to use a form of namecalling. You know better.
Sorry if you were offended by the all caps Lar, didn't even realize I typed it
that way (6:00a.m. pre-coffee). Give me a break, if I was going to name call,
I'd do a whole lot better than that. :')
> people should "take (moral/financial) responsibility for things that they
> > "choose to do'", if I'm driving down the street and someone runs a red light
> > and smashes into my car, under your philosophy, I should take the
> > responsibility for the damages because it was a risk of driving I choose to
> > take. There was risk involved, the accident was not my fault, but I should
> > assume the responsibility for the damages? Not a court in the land would
> > agree.
>
> Contrived outcome. The correct outcome is that the person who caused the
> problem is responsible, when that can be determined. The person who ran the
> red light, in almost every imaginable case, is the causative factor. Should
> your suit against that person fail, then and only then would your own
> insurance be involved. That in fact is how it worked for years and years, and
> how it still does, in non No Fault states. Now, NY is a no fault state, so
> that equation has been changed.
So in essence, you are saying that, even though I knew the risks involved, I am
neither morally nor financially responsible for the risk that I took.
That is the point I have attempted get you to realize throughout the long
"responsibility" debate.
It's not a black/white, yes/no question.
[snip a bunch of insurance discussion - I plead ignorance - I haven't owned a
car in 18 years]
> Which is flawed, but your point is valid. In fact, when responsibility cannot
> be established, it is reasonable to expect that someone gets stuck with it.
> You prefer a system in which that someone is whoever happens to have the
> deepest pockets rather than making any effort to assign responsibility.
I have never said that. Please cite. IMO, who ever is ultimately responsible
should suffer the moral/financial consequences. My point again, is that even
though someone knows the risks involved, they are not always morally nor
financially responsible for the risk taken.
> > Actually, many medical insurance plans dropped people who had AIDS. They are
> > no longer permitted to do so.
>
> If I had a free choice of insurance companies, which I don't, I would NEVER
> choose to go with a company that could drop me once I started paying premiums
> and kept my policy in force. And in a free market, insurance companies that
> did that would not stay in business long. But we have the insurance market YOU
> want, highly regulated. Which just proves that regulations don't really help
> much.
When did I say I wanted insurance companies regulated? Please cite.
But to your argument, those insurance companies would do very well. Prudential
Pre-First Accident Insurance. They would have cheaper rates, they could dump
any customer anytime they wanted. The customer would then have to go to a
higher rate insurance company.
> > Because it would create a moral delimna - should white supremists be
> > allowed to deny research funds for Sickle Cell Anemia?
>
> Deny WHOSE funds? Their own? There is nothing wrong with that. For every white
> idiot, er, I mean supremacist who chose not to fund that particular research,
> there would be a bunch of normal sane people who would.
>
> You completely missed Chris's point. As usual. You're all in favor of personal
> choice when it comes to what YOU want to do, but not for anyone else, eh? Or
> is it that I can choose lifestyles but not how to spend my money? YOU get to
> decide how my money is spent because you give more to political lobbies and
> act up on TV for the benefit of the media? What kind of priority scheme is
> that?
Its the kind of priority scheme that was needed to get any Federal Aids
Reasearch funding in the first place.
But as to your question:
- "You're all in favor of personal choice when it comes to what YOU want to
do, but not for anyone else, eh?"
Never said that, I'm in favor of free choice for all. But choices should be
made for the benefit of all.
> But that's what you seem to favor. All I'm saying is that if I am forced to
> live in a mixed system I would prefer that we do a realistic cost benefit
> analysis of research and use that to decide which to fund instead of using
> the "loudest activist group gets the most funding" theory.
>
> That's the whole point of this entire thread, everything else is a side issue.
What criteria do you use to do cost benefit analysis of medical research?
Until the research is complete, the costs cannot be analyzed. Neither can the
beneficiality of the research.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?
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| (...) When I first read this I just knew (incorrectly) that it would end with something like "infringing on my trade dress." Oh well. Hey Lar, do you prefer Lar or Larry? (...) Wow. I'd heard that about NYC inhabitants, but...wow. European friends (...) (24 years ago, 25-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?
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| (...) ED: My name is Lar, not LAR. By spelling it or capitalizing it in a way that I don't choose, you are trying to use a form of namecalling. You know better. people should "take (moral/financial) responsibility for things that they (...) (...) (25 years ago, 24-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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