Subject:
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Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 9 Mar 2000 02:41:21 GMT
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Viewed:
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1515 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Peter Callaway writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > I'm confused.
> >
> > Rereading what I said, I'm saying that god, by allowing repentance to
> > be enough, is unjustly rewarding those who did not work hard or be
> > virtuous by giving them a pass, (all they have to do is sincerely
> > repent) which is unfair to those who DID work hard and WERE virtuous.
>
> <much snipping to get down to this one point>
>
> > I will hasten to point out that a lot of sects do hold that repentance
> > is not enough... you don't get to repent on your deathbed, you need to
> > take responsibility as soon as you realise there's a problem, and start
> > working in THIS world to redress your sins, or you're still a sinner.
>
> But what if you only realise there is a problem on your death bed?
>
> I know what you're saying, and I struggle with this heaps. Matthew 20:1-16
> shows Jesus' attitude to this. It is not by our deeds but by the grace of God
> that we are saved, so it doesn't matter that I "toil" at being a Christian all
> my life, the promise that I have been given is freely given to all who believe
> and accept it, no matter when they accept it. The fact that I feel a bit "put
> out" when faced with this situation does nothing more than show that I'm
> human. I think it's pretty amazing that Jesus has predicted this kind of
> response from me and shown me His attitude, one of acceptance of all who want
> it, and one of gentle rebuke for me. Proverbs 19:20 "Hear council, and receive
> instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end".
>
> These sects are probably quoting the words of Paul "Faith without works is
> dead".
This is actually from James chapter 2.
> But Paul also says numerous times "It is not by works, but by the grace
> of God through His our the Lord Jesus Christ, that we are saved".
> Unfortunately I don't have my Bible here, so I can't quote you chapter and
> verse.
>
>
> Pete Callaway
A few points that might make this somewhat easier to wrap your brains around:
First, the bible places all men on equal standing, all men need to be "saved".
- even the proverbial "those who haven't heard".
Second, doing right doesn't balance out the wrongs we have done. If I do right
I have not earned any favor in God's sight, I'm expected to do right. When I do
right I have broken even - not made up for an equal sized wrong. This is not
unreasonable since our bodies and breath or on loan from him, he does ask for
them back in the end. Doing right is our obligation, not extra credit. The
problem is that when we seek to do right to earn acceptance we are trying to
establish our own righteousness - which is woefully lacking. If we were to
truly judge our motives, our good deeds are usually selfishly motivated and
thus voided anyway. The human heart is so complex in matters of seeking
significance, acceptance, solace, retribution, and the like, that sometimes we
subconsciously fool our own selves as to our motives.
Thirdly, and most difficultly, is the concept of the one who is forgiven.
Again, since all men are on the same playing field, it is totally fair, if not
extremely compassionate. I, too, wrestled with the idea of basically guilty
people being given a free pass, kinda like O.J. getting off for those murders.
I mean, that's not fair, right, that guilty people should be able to walk away
scott free without paying for what they've done. The difference is that when
someone repents, God sends part of Himself to inhabit and totally transform the
one who repents; this is what it means when it says that we are "new creation"
in Christ. Adam and Eve didn't have this. Not since creation has such a
combination existed - mortal man and God in the same vessel. The person who
walks away from God, having repented and been reborn, is NOT the same person
who initially approached Him. The bible says that the "old man" is dead - hence
justice has been effected - because the requirement of the law has been
executed.
Also, the fact that "God is Love" requires Him to find a totally righteous and
compassionate manner to allow the ones He loves to be with Him, lest the
Adversary find fault.
Bill
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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| If you guys are happy with that stance, that's cool by me. But you can't explain it away to my satisfaction. Your god is an unjust god by my standards, and that's all that matters to me. Hence, he, if he were to exist, he can blow off for all I (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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| It's gotten quiet here, and we're off the lugnet.homepage. I'm going to see if anything runs out of the bushes when I do this... All this splitting hairs & quoting Paul to rule on whether a sinner can be saved and get away with sinning.... I sure (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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| (...) <much snipping to get down to this one point> (...) But what if you only realise there is a problem on your death bed? I know what you're saying, and I struggle with this heaps. Matthew 20:1-16 shows Jesus' attitude to this. It is not by our (...) (25 years ago, 8-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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