Subject:
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Artificial Life (Was: Re: Evolution (was Re: Mormon bashing again))
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:01:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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738 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bill Farkas writes:
>
> > > Evolution itself simply isn't under question in the scientific community.
> >
> > I have read numerous articles over the years that state that a large number
> > of scienists concede that there must be an Architect.
>
> Printed where? Were they sociological studies of the religious beliefs of
> professional scientists, or were they annecdotes of certain scientists who had
> some Christian coworkers? What is a large number? Is it in the hundreds or
> the thousands?
It's understandable to be in awe of what god has produced, but it's arrogant to
assume that just because we can't comprehend it all, that evolution must be the
answer.
It's understandable to be in awe of what evolution has produced, but it's
arrogant to assume that just because we can't comprehend it all, that god must
be the answer.
Which one you believe is up to you, I'd have to go for the second though, as
there is ample proof (references later), that evolution exists. Not just in
theory but in practice; you can download programs for your home computer that
harness the power of evolution to create order from chaos.
Besides which, evolution doesn't preclude the existance of any god, that's a
narrow minded position for a scientist or person with religion to take. The two
aren't incompatible!
> > but they admit that there is too much order to be accidental. Unfortunately,
> > I don't have references.
>
> Well, that's rather inconvenient. The scientists and authors (not always the
> same) that I like to read have no problem believing that spontaneous order
> over a few billion years could account for everything we see today.
Agreed to both - there is too much to be accidental. Way too much. Does that
mean that there must be an architect? No - because evolution is not accidental.
Perhaps you could label it as directed-accidental, but that's missing the point
because the direction is the important part. Now maybe you would like to argue
that the direction, and therefore evolution itself comes from a god, and I
would have nothing to say about that as I have no proof either way. What I will
argue for though, is that evolution is a provable force. Just because a couple
of scientists are too feeble-minded to comphrehend evolution, that doesn't deny
its existance or ability to account for the diversity and existance of life.
Although, in all fairness, I should make it clear that we are all too
feeble-minded to comprehend evolution. Sure - we can simulate the effects on a
computer, in simple environments, with limited modelling factors... but real
life has had a buh-zillion more variables that we can't hope to model or
comprehend the effects of.
Anyway, here's some links!
<http://www.frams.poznan.pl/> Framsticks - try this out! It's a really
impressive (3d) realtime simulation in which framstick creatures evolve,
jumping, swimming, eating each other etc.
<http://www.hip.atr.co.jp/~ray/tierra/tierra.html> Tierra - implements a
assembly-like language, from which programs appear spontaneously and compete
for resources - CPU-time, memory, etc. This has demonstrated both parasites
(smaller programs which search memory locations for a specific part of a larger
program, insert themselves there, and effectively steal the larger programs
resources), and parasite detection and avoidance (the larger programs evolved a
capability to blat the area in themselves where the parasites usually jumped).
You can download a version from this site to play with yourself.
<http://arieldolan.com/aldb/default.asp> Link Database
<http://www.alife.org/>
And some more examples that I don't have time to find links to (although I will
if requested)
* Functions that sort integers in the smallest number of assembly commands -
Artificial Life has produced (barely understandable) functions that had
thwarted the best human efforts for years.
* Internet Routing protocols - Antnet - beats the pants off OSPF, the IGP as of
1998
Richard
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Papal support of evolution
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| (...) Indeed! In fact, IIRC, Pope John Paul II of the Roman Catholic Church made headlines a few years ago when he pontificated that Darwin's theory of evolution is more than a hypothesis and that it must be taken seriously by Christians. I'm (...) (25 years ago, 11-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Evolution (was Re: Mormon bashing again)
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| (...) Printed where? Were they sociological studies of the religious beliefs of professional scientists, or were they annecdotes of certain scientists who had some Christian coworkers? What is a large number? Is it in the hundreds or the thousands? (...) (25 years ago, 6-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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