Subject:
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Re: Mormon bashing again
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 3 Mar 2000 19:21:23 GMT
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Viewed:
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572 times
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On Fri, 3 Mar 2000 02:52:01 GMT "Shiri Dori" <shirid@hotmail.com> wrote
concerning 'Re: Mormon bashing again':
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Patricia Schempp writes:
>
> > Oh...don't get me started on separation of church and state.
>
> Or me either.
> You Americans don't know how lucky you are to at least have SOME degree of
> separation between the two.
>
> In Israel the two are totally mixed, wisted and intertwined to a horrible and
> utterly disgusting mess.
sad, but true. On the other hand, Israel is, and was always defined,
as a JEWISH state. So total and complete seperation was never in the books.
>
> The orthodox Jews have their own party, that is currently at large and yet
> growing. They put religion into EVERYTHING, and enforce their beliefs upon
> others.
> For example, store owners in Kibbutzes (1) are *required* to close their shops
> every Saturday, and other stores are mostly closed on Sats as well. Now, this
> might seem like not such a big deal, but Saturday is the only weekend-day in
> Israel (Sunday being a regular weekday). For less-religious people, this is
> the best day to go shopping, and shops lose loads of potential business due to
> this. There were huge debates over this last year, religious parties took the
> matter to the Supreme court and lots of people were enraged.
But most kibbutz's [1] that I've been to _were_ open for business on
saturdays... and btw, while sunday is a regular work day, friday
isn't for most people...
>
> Another example, the religious parties managed to pass a rule that closes some
> streets near the Bar-Ilan university every weekend.
nod... Are those the ones that go through officially religious
neighbourhoods? I mean, I have no problem with "Moshavim" [2] that
say "we are religious, please don't drive in here on saturday"...
>
> Not to mention the totally mandatory learning of the Bible (well, the old
> testament as christians call it). Everyone has Torah/Bible classes from 2nd
> grade all through middle school. Then in high-school you get to 'choose' -
> whether you want to take Bible in an enriched class. Every student is required
> to take the Tanach (bible) Matriculation tests (2) whether they like it or not.
hmmm... that goes back to the Jewish state thing... And my thoughts
on it are conflicting. On one hand, noone should be forced to learn
the bible... On the other hand, expecting any citizen of Israel to
know _something_ of it is not too much. :/ But that goes against my
own belief...
>
> These are only a few examples. A lot of non-religious jews (the majority of
> the country is, in fact, not very religious) are extremely pissed off by the
> involvement of religion with state, my family and I being some of them...
tsk - the majority of the country isn't _very_ religious but it is to
some extent religious. which is why these law do manage to pass - if
everyone was so pissed off at them, "meretz" [3] would have a much
bigger seat in the goverment.
:)
Dan
[1] any idea how to plurelize (sp) kibbutz in english?
[2] like a kibbutz, only different :P I'm not sure how though...
[3] meretz is one of the most anti-religious parties, IIRC.
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) Yes, but where do you draw the distinction between Jewish by heritage and Jewish by religion? I'm Jewish by lineage, but I am not Jewish by religion. Are all heritage-Jewish people in Isreal automatically assumed to be religion-Jewish? If not, (...) (25 years ago, 3-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) Susan has that answer. (...) On a kibbutz, everything is community property, you personally own nothing. On a Moshav, you cooperate to produce a product/products, and the profit is divided to do with what you will. -John (...) (25 years ago, 13-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) Or me either. You Americans don't know how lucky you are to at least have SOME degree of separation between the two. In Israel the two are totally mixed, wisted and intertwined to a horrible and utterly disgusting mess. The orthodox Jews have (...) (25 years ago, 3-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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