Subject:
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Re: RFC: An Alternative..
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:30:55 GMT
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Viewed:
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394 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz writes:
> Hm, interesting. We seem to actually be making some progress here. At a
> quick read, Richard's proposal sounds like Liberatopia to me. I agree
> with Larry that there needs to be more understanding of the flow of
> money and power.
Which flow of money? Apart from the minimal tax (admistration+State
Responsibility fees (which pays for national defence and other things of that
nature)), the flow of money is entirely up to the aggregate group.
Ie, a community, town, region, state, country etc could all decide to pay extra
tax and have some services provided, pay 100% tax and follow a Marxist-inspired
ideal, or pay the minimal tax and implement a Libertopia.
Power goes up from the individuals only - never down.
If no rights are being violated then:
* A community can't tell an individual what to do
* A Town can't tell a community what to do
* A region or city can't tell a Town what to do
* A state can't..
At the top you have an embodiment of government, made up from council workers
from the lower levels, who have no power - whose task it is to implement, who
are directly accountable to those in lower levels.
> It's interesting that when a vision for society is
> created separate from the label "Libertarian" we end up with something
> which looks remarkably Libertarian.
The irony wasn't lost, believe me :)
But the important difference in my mind, is that the freedom is there to choose
whether someone wants to live in a Libertarian area or not. If a bunch of
Communists in one Town sold really nice potatoes to a bunch of Libertarians in
another town, which paid for the Communists Region fees.. then those towns
could co-exist side by side.
> I think Larry is right that there are a lot of Libertarian thinkers out there
> who don't realize they are Libertarian.
I've never hid the fact that I agree with many Libertarian ideas, and this
structure.. I hope.. supplies a mechanism to allieviate my fears.
Ie. if a town has a problem with homeless, then they have the power to make
sure that something is done about it - which is going to be, for the most part,
more altruistic and less sinister than leaving it up to a corperation.
I didn't mention how corperations fit in. Basically Libertarians are right when
they say that the free-market would make them more efficient - and why not? As
no Social Grouping (community, town, city) is dependent upon their services
when they have it in their power to provide their own. (1)
Thanks for that - the first two responses haven't been as scary as I'd feared
:)
Richard
(1) It's my view that what makes a corperation efficient under free-market
conditions, is the fact that they can't afford to be inefficient. What makes
civil-servants inefficient is a lack of motivation and ability to change. When
you start making government workings accessable, and when you factor in that
every level is accountable to the levels below it.. then that provides a social
and mechanical incentive to achieve efficiency.
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: RFC: An Alternative..
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| Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) that (...) extra (...) Marxist-inspired (...) workers (...) who (...) choose (...) in (...) there (...) part, (...) when (...) As (...) feared (...) makes (...) When (...) that (...) social (...) What I read (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: RFC: An Alternative..
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| Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) that (...) extra (...) Marxist-inspired (...) workers (...) who (...) choose (...) in (...) there (...) part, (...) when (...) As (...) feared (...) makes (...) When (...) that (...) social (...) What I read (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: RFC: An Alternative..
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| (...) Hm, interesting. We seem to actually be making some progress here. At a quick read, Richard's proposal sounds like Liberatopia to me. I agree with Larry that there needs to be more understanding of the flow of money and power. It's interesting (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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