Subject:
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Re: Preaching to the Choir
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:06:25 GMT
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Viewed:
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1812 times
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"Christopher Weeks" <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote in message
news:I2AH9I.13p2@lugnet.com...
> I actually agree with an awful lot of what Larry says in this thread. But • not
> all of it. And I think he's misread me in a couple of places.
>
> I'm not talking about eliminating market mechanisms from the determination • of
> what work can be rewarded. Only to what degree. It is good that both • Tercells
> and Lexuses (Lexi?) are available. I have no problem with you wanting a • Lexus
> and doing the extra work (or not having other luxuries) to get one. I am
> grossly offended by the fact that you should be able to get such a luxury • almost
> off-handedly (and maybe not you, but some people can) while others will • never
> have that kind of earning power no matter how seriously they work or study • or
> scrimp.
>
> The continued references to a soviet determining what work is valued • enough for
> payment suggests that you are misunderstanding what I think. I think you • should
> be paid for digging holes _exactly_ to the extent that someone else wants • to pay
> you. Commerce should be free in that way. I'm just thinking it should be • a
> crime for you to charge more than one manhour for a hole that took you an • hour
> to dig.
Hmm, how do you enforce this? What happens when my decrepit neighbor is so
desperate to find a hole digger that he offers me his Lexus AND a 1 man-hour
"dollar bill" to dig holes in his back yard? Will the labor police come and
take the 1000 man hour Lexus away from me? This of course brings up the
issue of how do you price manufactured goods? How do you factor in the man
hour cost of the machinery? The raw goods are obvious. How do you figure in
transportation costs?
I think I'll assert that you would eventually find an economy just like
today's. In other words, I think we started from a 1 man hour economy. Then
we started bartering goods. Then someone came up with the clever idea of
using some kind of token to represent "a favor owed" and money was soon
born. Once you have these tokens, their value quickly will get divorced from
real resources (natural resources and labor). As soon as people have a way
to value different goods differently, they will also value different
services differently.
What happens when two people need holes dug in their yards. One guy needs a
lot done, and he doesn't want his trees damaged. Another guy just wants some
stuff dug up randomly. The first guy probably wants a more careful,
efficient, methodical person and probably is willing to pay more "per hour."
The second guy may not care if the digger spends half his time redigging a
hole because he tossed dirt from the second into the first, plus he takes a
2 minute break every 10 minutes to puff up (ok, you could require him to
work a total of 75 minutes to get one man hour of pay - or maybe even 150
minutes because of his inefficiency - but once you do that, you're changing
his hourly wage).
Frank
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Preaching to the Choir
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| (...) I guess your main point is that _some_ services will have greater demand than supply and the free market provides a method of allocation. Off hand (though I'll continue to think about this) I would leave it to the individual suppliers to (...) (20 years ago, 11-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Preaching to the Choir
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| I actually agree with an awful lot of what Larry says in this thread. But not all of it. And I think he's misread me in a couple of places. I'm not talking about eliminating market mechanisms from the determination of what work can be rewarded. Only (...) (20 years ago, 11-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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