Subject:
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Re: Preaching to the Choir
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:11:02 GMT
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Viewed:
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2125 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks wrote:
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By “wealth tax” do you mean a tax on acquisitions/already-held
holdings separate from income?
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Yes. I see it as a sure-fire loop-hole avoidance scheme. If all property
is taxed, regardless of who owns it, then the rich -- even when trying to
disguise their wealth are taxed proportionately no matter what.
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In principle I think this would work for me, as long as we can set up a
guarantee against certain individuals legally declaring themselves the
tax-free stewards (rather than tax-liable owners) of a multi-billion dollar
estate, or something similar.
Alternatively, perhaps we should impose the tax on the
property/material/money itself, rather than on the person who “owns” it.
That way, each person really would be the tax-free steward, and the tax
revenues would still be generated.
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That’s how I meant it all along. Sorry for being unclear. You don’t have to
have people as stewards, though that might foster a philosophic advantage for
society, so long as what’s taxed is the wealth, regardless of who owns it.
For the rest of this conversation I’ll be wearing my socialist sweater (TM :-).
It’s not a perfect fit but it’s a thought experiment that I’ve been running for
a couple years.
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And does “common earnings per hour rate” mean that everyone would get the
same hourly wage regardless of profession?
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Yeah. Ideally, under such a system the medium of exchange would simply be
the manhour.
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But wouldn’t that play havoc with comparative advantage?
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Hopefully. That’s the goal.
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One hour of Bill Gates’s time is worth more than one hour of
Paul Krugman’s time
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I used to think that too. But I’m stunned with myself for having done so. It
is so clearly obvious to me now that that philosophy is supportive of an
inherently unfair and anti-social society that it is startling that I fell for
it.
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and forcing
them to be the same seems to miss any information the market can transmit to
improve allocations.
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I don’t believe they are improvements.
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Well, the inherent “worth” of an individual’s time is subjective and
dependent on context.
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Not really. You have so many hours and then you’re dead and gone. Your hour is
worth an hour.
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Nevertheless, it must be admitted that some people have invested more
manhours in training for (or in otherwise establishing) their vocations, so a
greater return on that investment is understandably desirable to them.
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Misunderstandably. The thinking that one man deserves more for his hour of
labor than another is an anti-social paradigm that favors the lucky over the
unlucky. I’m smarter (or whatever) than 99% (or whatever) of people. Do I
really deserve a better standard of living than those 99%? I just drew the
lucky card -- so I get a lifetime of relative comfort and ease? I have a very
hard time expressing how screwed up I think that is. Is it not economic might
makes right? What’s the difference?
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Broadly speaking, I suppose that we already engage in something like this
manhour-based economy,
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No we don’t. We engage in theivery with a very, very slick PR job.
We generate so much material that everyone in the world could live on ten hours
per week of labor. I don’t begruge anyone who wants more toys and works more
hours than me to get them. But I do begruge them more toys because they got
lucky.
The very desire to have more than others is a sickness that we probably can’t
help. But within the human experience, it is clear that we in the US represents
the high end of a spectrum of socially-accepted greed. I think it’s at an
unhealthy level.
Chris
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Preaching to the Choir
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| (...) Communism. Essentially denies supply and demand. Interesting idea but it didn't seem to work, at least at some levels. (...) "Workhours" unless you are still in the dark ages. :-) -->Bruce<-- (20 years ago, 9-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Preaching to the Choir
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| (...) Well, Chris, that's life. Life is unfair. And no amount of social engineering is going to change that. The best we can do is assist our fellow men and they us, and together we will muddle through life the best we can. But what I don't (...) (20 years ago, 9-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Preaching to the Choir
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| (...) Seriously? Have you read "The Road to Serfdom"? I'm just curious. (...) OK, can I run a thought experiment here for a sec? Suppose I'm a brain surgeon and a darn good one. Save lots of lives every day I go in to work. But one day I decide my (...) (20 years ago, 9-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Preaching to the Choir
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| (...) In principle I think this would work for me, as long as we can set up a guarantee against certain individuals legally declaring themselves the tax-free stewards (rather than tax-liable owners) of a multi-billion dollar estate, or something (...) (20 years ago, 9-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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