Subject:
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Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:45:24 GMT
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Viewed:
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647 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
snip
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I am 100% atheist; do you therefore assert that it is impossible
for me to have non-religion-based morality?
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Eventually, yes. I believe that there is no compelling reason to be good
without God.
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I think that any progression of society necessitates us being on, average, good,
or there will be no healthy progression.
I have to rely on my fellow person to do the work that I cannot do in order to
have the life I want to live at this time--I cannot grow the food I need to
live-someone else has to be ‘good enough’ to raise food and distribute it to
those that aren’t raising food.
This ‘goodness’ at this time mostly happens due to money exchange--money for
services rendered. ‘Religious applied morals’ are not needed for these exhanges
to take place.
Further, there are many scientists and workers looking into ways to ‘better’ our
lifestyles, either thru medical research or other things. Again, religion
doesn’t have to be present for these things to occur.
I have many friends and members of my own family that do things ‘out of the
goodness of their hearts’, and they are “card-carrying” athiests. (1)
If we want a better society, we have to work towards that. Basing the
betterment of society on religion that may not neccessarily apply to the “issues
of the day” is just limiting yourself. Ideas and opportunities that one may
investigate are not available due to these limitations.
This, in a roundabout way, is why I appreciate the ‘multiculturalism’ of Canada
opposed to the ‘melting pot’ of America--less limitations--a virtual
smorgasboard of ideas.
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I would also assert that God as portrayed in the text of the Old Testament
is hardly a moral paragon, and I’m not even sure that Jesus is as moral as
many other people. Socrates, for example, or Ghandi, just to name two.
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God is holy, mysterious, and good. Characterizations of God other than that
are at best inaccurate.
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I’d rephrase--“Characterizations of God are at best inaccurate.”
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So although our society’s values aren’t based on a particular religion,
it is based on morality derived from religion (in particular
Judeo-Christian).
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And Judeo-Christian myth is derived from pre-existing pagan tradition;
should we therefore open our legislative sessions with blood sacrifices to
those pagan gods?
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Specious, and no (unless you mean we hoist the bloated teddy whale onto the
altar;-)
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“Derived from” does not mean “wholly beholden to.” I think we as a society
will have made real progress once we can divorce ourselves from the fiction
that selective quotiation of 2000+-year-old myths are the best foundation
for morality, society, or law.
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How is this possible without the wholesale erradication of religion? Or do
you feel that this would be a Good Thing®? I believe that religion keeps man
from the brink of chaos and gives us meaning in life. Without it, we are
lost and doomed to self-destruction.
JOHN
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Dave K
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