Subject:
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Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 8 Sep 1999 04:10:16 GMT
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Viewed:
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1433 times
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All right John,
Here is Moz' original post that I was referring to:
> No. Theft is at the core of Christian beliefs. For starters the prohibition
> of ursury (that is, allowing market forces to set interest rates), the
> various requirements to be your brothers keeper (the church sanctions the
> theft of your property to support your brother). And don't start me on
> tithing, especially as traditionally done by the church when it is very
> much extortion. That's just some easy ones off the top of my head.
John Neal wrote in message <37D5C0DC.FDA80880@uswest.net>...
> John DiRienzo wrote:
> > Whats wrong with you? You seem to understand that the church does • steal
> > from those who belong to it (by choice, even), and you object about that.
>
> How can you call a gift stealing?
Based on what he said, which relates to the traditional role of the
church (which may have changed a lot in the last 100-500 years) basically
all of the things he mentioned were *requirements* for members. They were
rules, and if you broke them, you get kicked out - (in some situations, that
also meant getting kicked out of the country you lived in, or thrown in
prison). Today, in the US at least, you have choice, but are still expected
to *fund* the church you belong to.
> > But you don't understand that governments do the exact same thing (some
> > times in conjunction with one church or another) and have no objection to
> > that whatsoever? In fact you support that theft, but get upset about it
> > when a church does it. Any church or government uses the same ethic • (give
> > us your money which we can use to help those who (supposedly) need it • better
> > than you can) to steal your money. Why do you object to one and not the
> > other?
>
> They are different. Churches collect money *voluntarily* to assist those • in
> need. The gov collects money whether you like it or not. If I don't
> contribute to the offering plate, so what? If I don't contribute to the • IRS,
> they (gov) use force to take it from me. So how are these two scenarios • "the
> exact same thing"?
Your right, church and government are not the exact same thing - but the
things he disliked about the church, he likes in a government - the same
things, principles, expectations, etc. I still don't know why he feels that
way. Just because the church has lost a lot of its power to the various
governments of the world doesn't change the fact that it acts in the same
way as those governments. It can also be mentioned that if you are not a
good upstanding member of whatever church you belong to you will burn in
hell forever, which is another method of taking property by force.
> -John
--
Have fun!
John
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