Subject:
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Re: La belle province
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:24:02 GMT
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Viewed:
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3031 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> Consider yourself lucky you're "stuck" with a country that would probably at
> least let you secede without too much of a fight if you ever marshalled the
> votes for it. Many people, oppressed far far more than you guys are, are not
> that lucky by a long stretch. Consider the Nigerian/Biafran war, consider
> the breakup of Yugoslavia, consider Ethiopia/Eritrea.
I noticed the examples you gave were from nations where democracy was
inexistent at the time of the breakup. So I ask: is a democratic nation
immune to separatism? I mean, not the sociological phenomena in itself,
rather the effective secession of lands.
More: can a democratic nation use repression (in the sense a dictatorship
does) to crush separatism? Under the argument that "a democracy is not
violating the rights of the separatist community", can one State claim that
a nation belonging to it has no real reason to secede, and then proceed to
crush separatist movements as common criminals?
> The general track record of nations is that they are very hostile to the
> notion that people can decide they don't want to belong to the larger part
> and form their own government in a smaller part. That's too bad, really. I
> tend to support the rights of self determination and feel secession ought to
> be allowed.
I agree with your assessment of the historical background, indeed few
nations ever alowed peaceful secessions; what should then be the criteria to
judge the fairness of a plead for secession?
> But on the other hand, I'm usually not so keen to see countries fracture
> along ethnic lines, myself as the formerly oppressed minority that is the
> new majority in the smaller part has this nasty habit of turning on the
> former majority.
A very valid point indeed (I'm remembering the Baltic States and Russian
communities).
But what if the ethnic community wishing independance is dominant (say,
95%), and presents no real threat to the "leftover of the former majority"?
To be precise, on what kind of information would you base your stance
regarding a nation like Catalonia, for instance?
And what if the State has promoted "colonization" of the secceding nation to
the point of supplanting the natives? In this case, please consider the
example of Euskadi/Basque country as a possible case-study.
> If Quebec got its way, what would you do to ensure the rights of the new
> English speaking minority? From what I hear it's not very pleasant to be an
> English speaker in Quebec (relatively speaking, mind you... I haven't heard
> of any ethnic cleansing, thank goodness) as it is.
Then the English-speaking Quebecans would seccede themselves... ;-)
Pedro
(adept of City-states)
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: La belle province
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| (...) <snip> (...) Doesn't Texas every once in a while talk about being 'separate' or is that just a figment of my imagination... Just wondering... Dave K (22 years ago, 23-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: La belle province
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| (...) Not sure what you mean by immune in this context. Some democratic nations have resisted mightily. The US Civil War was at least partly about separatism. Other democratic nations have not resisted (Czechoslovakia seems to have peacefully (...) (22 years ago, 23-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | La belle province
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Terry Prosper writes: <snip> I dunno, Quebec doesn't seem all that oppressed to me, but I only have an outside view. Consider yourself lucky you're "stuck" with a country that would probably at least let you secede (...) (22 years ago, 23-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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