Subject:
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Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:00:47 GMT
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Reply-To:
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lpieniazek@novera(nospam).com
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Viewed:
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1307 times
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Jesse Long wrote:
>
> arry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message
> news:37CB60B3.98E448AF@voyager.net...
> > I find it interesting that you can twist around what I say so
> > remarkably, since it seems to be one of your hot buttons to accuse
> > others of twisting YOUR words.
>
> What have a twisted? You decry my/our/Christians' concept of God because
> the God you see in the Bible doesn't live up to your definitions of justice,
> righteousness, and fairness.
>
> > Your god requires worship in a specific way. Why is that not groveling?
>
> When did I say that God requires specific worship?
So no specific kind is required? False Idols are OK? Ikons are in, or
out? Name in vain is OK? Which of the commandments do I have to keep?
All 10? best of 7? Seems pretty specific to me there.
OK, OK, part of the issue really is the many sects of Christianity...
many of which claim they have the only, or best, way to worship. I
should not tar you with that brush, sorry about that. You've not
actually come out and said that. I think I like John's brand better than
yours though, he seems somewhat tolerant.
But the fundamental point is this: Unless I accept your god, I am
damned. No matter whether my life is perfect in every other way or not.
To me, (and this is semantics, I admit) having to say "I accept" IS
groveling.
>
> > My morality is there on the table for all to see, it derives from a few
> > simple principles (one, actually). If I live a life fully consistent
> > with it, why would that not be righteous?
>
> Because lots of cultures practice things perfectly "righteous" to them that
> others would never accept. That makes your particular set of morals either
> superior, meaning there is an absolute scale that can be better than yours,
? huh ?
I agree my morals are superior to many other ones, heck, you OR I could
dig up lots of quotes where I said just that, I'm no moral relativist.
But you lost me when you said that because mine are better than others,
that implies that there are some better than mine. What if mine actually
ARE perfect? Run THAT thought experiment and let me know.
> or it makes your particular set of morals jusy another in a long line of
> relativistic crap passing as morals and not really that great after all,
> except in your own mind.
I'm not a moral relativist. And I didn't make these morals up out of
whole cloth, they are the morals that the Founding Fathers had in mind
for this place you and are in, and the ones that underpin the LP, so
it's not just me ranting. (not *just* me ranting :-) )
>
> > For me to condemn god would be to acknowledge that she existed. Don't
> > believe I've done that. I've merely condemned a hypothetical god who
> > would require me to worship her in a specific way or suffer fire for my
> > pains, no matter how well I live, yet who will take a murderer up to eat
> > honey at her side as long as that murderer is truly "Sorry" for what
> > they did.
>
> You're really hung up on this worship thing. Do you not like being told
> you're wrong, by any chance?
I don't like being told I'm wrong when I'm not, but in the general case,
I'm fine. Just ask John Neal. When he and I were playing fus, we were
trying to find people who could administer a sound drubbing to us
because they were better players. If that's not seeking out people who
can tell you you are wrong (about where to put your men in defense, and
how to slide one past their defense to pass it forward and a hundred
other things) I don't know what is. Perhaps you should ask yourself the
same question, though.
> Christianity isn't about worship procedures. That's denomination, and it doesn't matter.
You're losing me here. What is it, then? Anything I care to say is? John
at least articulated what he feels it is. Do you agree with his
definition or not?
>
> > Bah.
> >
> > So, hypotethetically speaking, is that your god or not?
>
> No. For reasons to which you're not paying attention.
Sez you. I think I'm paying better attention than you can handle so
you're dodging. Please actually answer my hypothetical. Is that your god
or not?... and if not, construct a similar description.
--
Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com http://my.voyager.net/lar
- - - Web Application Integration! http://www.novera.com
fund Lugnet(tm): http://www.ebates.com/ Member ref: lar, 1/2 $$ to
lugnet.
NOTE: I have left CTP, effective 18 June 99, and my CTP email
will not work after then. Please switch to my Novera ID.
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