Subject:
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Re: Poverty myths?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:16:02 GMT
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Viewed:
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224 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli writes:
> > > Here is an article that really makes one think.
> > >
> > > http://www.Creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?next=2&ColumnsName=wwi
> >
> > The examples are not that good: China has a lower population density than
> > Taiwan, but the again more than half of China is uninhabitable.
>
> So the population density of inhabitable China would be roughly double which is
> still about half that of Taiwan and remains insignificant compared to Hong
> Kong.
Hong Kong is a city - it can't be compared to an entire country. Of which it
is a part of, BTW.
And I said OVER half of China is uninhabitaBLE, not uninhabitED - the last
portion is even greater than the first. If you check where the majority of
the chinese live, you'll find that they are tremendously concentrated in the
valleys of only two rivers and along the coastline. In short, what I'm
saying is that the density of "effectively populated" areas of China is
immense, as opposed to the immensity of "effectively unpopulated" areas.
So there is a fallace in his line of thinking. Or at least his example!
> > And
> > Switzerland became rich charging toll rights to those who wanted to cross
> > the Alps.
>
> Assuming that is actually where most of their whealth is derived, is it not
> there right to do so as the land owners?
Extorsion can be named different if it's backed by legislation... :-)
Alright, I won't say there is no right to charge the toll; I would however
prefer to think tolls are charged for road/environmental maintenance (and a
fair percentage of profit), and not solely ground property. Present day
facts support this claim of mine...
> > Williams' arguments have less strenght under these facts, wouldn't
> > you say?
>
> You might want to check out his credentials.
> http://www.Creators.com/opinion_Shell.cfm?pg=biography.html&columnsname=wwi
> I am inclined to believe he knows his stuff and is a better source than the
> idealistic politicians with little understanding of economics.
Which would be?...
> Really this here is the main point of his article:
> "Poverty is mostly self-inflicted -- indigenously created. What are some of the
> most commonly held characteristics of the non-poor world? In non-poor
> countries, people tend to have greater personal liberty, property rights are
> protected, contracts are enforced, there's rule of law and there's a
> market-oriented economic system rather than a socialistic one."
I won't dispute that paragraph, with exception of the last bit - Sweeden and
Canada are semi-socialistic for US standards, and are hardly poor. They do
differ from other socialistic nations because they grant freedom of
endeavour to their citizens - and that's the key to success, like Williams
writes. In the end, the form of government is secondary IF the citizens feel
free to risk a new business. Come on, we both know that even a 100%
capitalist regime won't *automatically* grant economic success! Just look at
Argentina...
Williams is trying to link politics and economics as if they were one and
the same thing. They are not, at least since China decided to become a
Market-oriented Socialist State - with much success so far.
"Getting rich is glorious" - you gotta love Deng Xiaoping's pragmatism! :-D
Would you accept my suggestion and seek a different viewpoint (not
necessarily contradictory, mind you) in David S. Landes book, "The Wealth
and Poverty of Nations"? And relax, this guy is far from what I'd call a
socialist ;-)
Pedro
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Poverty myths?
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| (...) is (...) Hong Kong is the name of the city AND the country. (...) OK I will agree that the example is obviously distorted in favor of Williams' argument, however that still doesn't explain the country of Hong Kong's success despite its (...) (22 years ago, 3-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Poverty myths?
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| (...) So the population density of inhabitable China would be roughly double which is still about half that of Taiwan and remains insignificant compared to Hong Kong. (...) Assuming that is actually where most of their whealth is derived, is it not (...) (22 years ago, 2-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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