Subject:
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Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 29 Nov 2002 05:13:28 GMT
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Viewed:
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1808 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Brendan Powell Smith writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > But this really isn't about BPS and God having a good laugh-- heck, BPS
> > probably doesn't even believe in God.
> No, I do not believe in God.
> > It's about BPS and you having a good
> > laugh at Joe Christian and his relationship with God. It's like the
> > unwritten rule that only Jewish comedians are allowed to tell Jewish jokes,
> > or that only black people are allowed to call each other by the N-word.
> > Anyone else outside of those groups telling Jewish jokes or using the N-word
> > would be labeled "racist".
> Being Christian and being black aren't particularly analagous. Christianity
> is a religion comprised of a belief system that you can either choose to
> accept or reject. Being black means you happened to be born with a certain
> shade of skintone or have a particular ancestry, and involves no particular
> belief system. So while I believe it makes sense and can be worthwhile to
> point out the flaws in belief systems such as Christianity,
I'm curious as to how you think the BT is worthwhile to a Christian by showing
that what they believe in is silly (I can see why is it useful to *you*-- a
"creative" expression of your rejection of your perceived silliness of
Christianity, and general amusement).
> it makes little
> sense to point out the flaws in being black. This holds whether or not you
> are a member of the group in question. (Judaism is somewhere in between
> because it is commonly used to refer to both a religion and a particular
> ancestry).
I would say that it makes little sense to point out the flaws in someone else's
religion, unless you were trying to discredit that religion. And if that is
your intent, than a frosty reaction to the BT by Christians could be understood.
> > If BPS *were* a Christian, I think it would be different, because he would be
> > laughing at *himself* as well as others; as it is he is only laughing at
> > others, and religion is probably the touchiest subject an individual could
> > choose to mock.
> By illustrating Bible stories in LEGO, I am casting light on parts of the
> Bible that I find, in turns, extremely disturbing, morally questionable,
> confounding, humorous, and strangely interesting. While I admit to poking
> occasional fun at little inconsistancies (such as God killing the Egyptians'
> livestock three times over), and generally illustrating with a sense of
> humor, I don't consider the tone to be mocking. Or would you consider any
> atheist who points out these parts of the Bible to be mocking Christianity?
I guess it would depend upon how they did it, but no, I do not consider polite
disagreement to be mocking. But here's my point. Religion is a pretty
personal issue, and some take it more personally than others. When you (as an
outsider) decide to take it upon yourself to criticize Christianity, your
motivation comes into question. It's not your religion, so why criticize it?
I can see why other Christians might look at Christianity in a critical light
(to better understand their own religion), but not so easily an outsider, and
that type of criticism can easily be construed as being mockery and as an
attempt to discredit it as being silly.
> > But hey, it's a free country. Not like Christians will be calling for *his*
> > death, • (snip)
> > Interestingly, if BPS should decide to recreate stories in the Koran, he
> > could well find himself *actually* condemned to death by some Muslim leaders!
>>Better he should stick to the easy target of check-turning Christians....
> Let me just say that I cannot think of a single time I have ever in my life
> seen a Christian put the "turn the other cheek" teaching into practice. And
> I *have* received death threats from Christains. (You may simply dismiss
> such cranks as "not real Christians" because they do not follow the
> teachings of Jesus, but if you were to go about dismissing any Christian who
> does not follow the teachings of Jesus, let's just say that that would
> result in a lot of dismissed Christians.)
And why not? Yeah, Christians aren't perfect, but there is no "faith without
works", to quote from the book of James. I would have a tough time believing
someone if they told me that they were a Christian and that they issued death
threats. There is a serious disconnect there.
> I did not choose to "target" Christianity over Islam to avoid death threats.
> My particular interest in Christianity is that it is the religion I was
> brought up to believe, the one which for a long time it seemed that everyone
> around me accepted as true while I began to seriously question it, and the
> one in which the majority of my fellow countrymen believe. If I had grown
> up in a Muslim country, chances are I'd be illustrating the Koran right now.
I doubt it. Sure, you can create a BT in a free society such as ours, but not
everywhere. Some are not so tolerate.
> I'm sure I would find just as much disturbing, strange, and interesting in
> that book as I do in the Bible.
> > but I find it interesting that in this PC atmosphere of sensitivity to
> > minorities and different cultures, it's always open season to bash Christians.
> I don't see how illsutrating Bible stories in LEGO as I am doing is
> equivalent to "bashing Christianity". Even if you thought I was "bashing",
> you'd really also have to include Judaism as my one of my "targets" since I
> have illsutrated far more stories from the Hebrew Bible than the New Testament.
> And even if I were "bashing", wouldn't the proper Christian reaction be to
> "turn the other cheek", allowing me to bash your other strongly held beliefs
> as well?
Whoops. I should apologize here. I didn't mean to infer that *you* in
particular were "bashing Christianity"; I was suddenly speaking very generally
about our culture. It seems to me that everyone in our society today is so
careful about protecting the rights of groups these days ("Not that there is
anything wrong with that!"), but that it is okay somehow to slam Christians and
their religion. It was meant more as a throw-away observation.
And even if I *did* think you were bashing Christianity, I don't necessarily
think that the proper Christian reaction would be to just roll over and take
it. I was simply making a comparison to the probable Muslim reaction (violent)
with the Christian one (non-violent).
I don't think that you had any particular malice in your intent with the Brick
Testament; all I am saying is that it is certainly conceivable to me to see why
someone might think you did. But certainly you must have realized that,
generally speaking, non-Christians would find your work a lot more humorous
than Christians, and that some of those Christians would probably be pretty
offended by it as well. One doesn't get the sense that you are laughing *with*
Christians or Jews, but *at* them. You really could have done the BT in a
non-offensive way, steering clear of the "controversial" stories, but it
appears that that wasn't really a concern of yours. If I were to accuse you of
anything, it would be of being insensitive to those who take those stories very
seriously. But as I said before, it is certainly your perogative, but just
don't be surprised that some may find your work offensive.
-John
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Message has 4 Replies:
 | | Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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| (...) Please note that Brendan said he was raised Christian. I would also argue that almost everyone in the US is sufficiently affected by Christianity to have sufficient reason to question it. I would also argue that if a religion can not withstand (...) (22 years ago, 29-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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| (...) Let's say for a moment that what Christians believe in *is* silly. Would it then be worthwhile to help show them this? Is it worthwhile in general to discredit other people's silly beliefs, even when they are very much convinced of these silly (...) (22 years ago, 29-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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| (...) The problem I have with this line of thinking is that everyone (here in the US anyway) seems way too sensitive to these sorts of things. I actually disagree with your thinking that there is nothing wrong with our overly PC approach to things. (...) (22 years ago, 29-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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| (...) Hey all. Huge long thread here that sprang up while I was away. I'm tempted to respond to about every other post, but fear it's a fruitless quagmire. Rather than hit any of the theological points of issue, I just wanted to address this one, (...) (22 years ago, 4-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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| (...) No, I do not believe in God. (...) Being Christian and being black aren't particularly analagous. Christianity is a religion comprised of a belief system that you can either choose to accept or reject. Being black means you happened to be born (...) (22 years ago, 28-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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