Subject:
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Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:00:05 GMT
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Viewed:
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1273 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> > > Does that make my opinion less informed than yours?
> >
> > One political science course? Well then, yes.
>
> If I don't like your opinion--my tough cookies,
> just as if you don't like mine--your tough cookies.
He didn't say your opinion was infelicitous. He said it was rooted in
ignorance.
> And yet the most powerful man in the free world left his office because of
> hte power of the *law*, not the power of a gun.
It's arguable that he was the most powerful, but even that said, there were
many many awfully powerful forces aligned against him. He wasn't even
supported by his party. It might not have been so neat if he had been
charismatic.
> > Y'know, those guys in the Warsaw Ghetto didn't fight back the Nazis with
> > strong opinions...call me crazy, but I bet many Jews stay well-armed. As it
> > should be.
>
> I believe there was mo democratic process in place at the time--no other
> *option* for the oppressed to change the system
So if the police come to your door (as they have to the doors of many US
citizens) and take you a way and concentrate you somewhere without full
access to your rights or the law, you would simply wave your magic wand of
perfect democracy to release yourself? Come on!
> > By contrast, those kids in Tiananmen Square were merely massacred outright.
> > Why? No guns.
>
> No democracy
What about Kent State? Was that also no democracy?
> And Japanese Canadians were interned in Alberta and their property
> confiscated--Yeah, bad things can happen if the people don't stand up and do
> something about it
And since we clearly can't count on that happening, we should be armed so we
can see to our own needs in whatever sized groups we can form.
> Again, if the people stood up and said something...
And again...they don't. And won't! Look at John Neal. He thinks that
anything and everything the US is doing, will do, and could possibly do is
without flaw. What's going to make him stand up and say something? There
are a lot of people out there who are equally delusional.
> Gov't is bad--sure--they have done some stupid things. It's the people who
> put these folks into power in the first place.
No it isn't. It's money!
> Start with your neighbour
> and try to convince him or her that your ideals are better, that there's an
> injustice being done somewhere--get your rep. to do somehting or kick his or
> her heinie out of office--it's the power of democracy.
I can't. No matter how much you like to pretend otherwise.
> Yeah there's something wrong with the system--stop whining about
> it and threatening to shoot people, and do something about it--change the
> system--get your rep. on your side.
How? My rep is a stooge of organized crime. You think I'm going to risk
getting a bullet in the brain just to try and replace him with a stooge of
big oil instead? Screw that. All my options suck. But they don't suck so
much that everyone is noticing. Here in New Jersey, people think it's cute
when our politicians get caught in graft and have to apologize.
Occasionally one goes to jail as a token move when they fall out of favor
with their money supplier. Then we can all nod knowingly and pat one
another on the back for being so free and mighty. Great!
> Sell your point--it is the nature of
> capitalism--if people like what you have to say, if they believe in your
> cause, they will vote accordingly the next election.
What if I'm bad at selling?
> If they don't follow
> your lead, it isn't because they're dumber than you are, it's because maybe
> they just don't believe in your opinion--The nature of democracy.
Or maybe it's because they _are_ dumber than me. Or simply that I don't
have the skills to explain how things are messed up and how to fix them.
> Uninformed, again. Hmmm... If Person B doesn't like Person A's opinion,
> Person B is obviously uninformed.
That's not it. If person A displays a woeful misunderstanding of something
(whether the scientific method, the theory of evolution and speciation,
history in general, or specific political systems -- to pick four perfectly
random topics) _then_ that person is uninformed. Or ignorant. And maybe
willfully so. But that's just speculation.
> Not once has anyone here refuted Nixon leaving office without the sign or
> even *implied threat* of a gun.
That's because it's a dumb example. There are times when people used guns
against agents of the government productively. Nixon had no choice.
> Not once has anyone here shown that the democratic process, with all its
> problems, doesn't work.
You keep saying that it works, but not once have you told us what you think
it is working toward.
> The services are out there abroad and at home, doing the best
> they can to protect your civil liberties
Come again? Are you actually asserting that it is the charter of the US
military to protect the civil liberties of the citizenry? That's news to
me. The grand army of the ACLU...Sweet!
Chris
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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| (...) Would guns truly have made a beneficial difference? Or would it have made the students seem like armed combatants who deserved whatever they got? I expect that it would depend on how the press chose to spin it, but at the very least it would (...) (22 years ago, 23-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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| (...) Well, it was a minor but--semantics--irrelevant to the discussion at hand. An *opinion*, a voice, a discourse is *protected* by the 1st. If I don't like your opinion--my tough cookies, just as if you don't like mine--your tough cookies. (...) (...) (22 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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