Subject:
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Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:35:24 GMT
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Reply-To:
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c576653@+avoidspam+cclabs.missouri.edu
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Viewed:
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1081 times
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Scott Edward Sanburn wrote:
>
> "Christopher L. Weeks" wrote:
>
> > In what way do you disagree with my take on democracy? It's the rule >of
> > the people - by vote - so as long as 51% of the people who vote think
> > it's OK to kill me, then politically (if not morally) it is. Right? Wrong?
>
> It's a simplified definition, I think you are talking about direct democracy, I
> was talking more of a constitutional democracy, where the people have certain
> rights (a.k.a. Bill of Rights) and protection from being murdered and so forth.
Like David Koresh?
> A representative democracy is where the U.S. is now. I think your example is
> more of a mob rule, perhaps.
I think that Mob Rule is where we are now...oh yeah, that is a
representative democracy.
> > Of course you can turn that back on me and replace the concept of fetal
> > tissue testing with murder and I can't really defend that murder should
> > only be financially avoided. I agree with Larry that no system will be
> > perfect, I just think I can make it better.
>
> Fair enough. I don't like the idea, are there companies that are doing that now?
Fetal testing or murder? Both, I guess.
> No, no no!!! Maybe I should change the statement to say I disagree with
> everything that the modern Democratic Party stands for: Class warfare/envy,
> Affirmative Action, no responsibility for anything, big government, big taxes,
> race warfare, etc., everything "for the children", Abortion paid for by
> government, welfare "rights", social security, etc.
I do not support those things either. But here's how I view the words
"liberal" and "conservative." Conservatives want things to stay as they
are (or were recently) and liberals are in favor of change. Not all
change is good, and neither is the status quo. In the political climate
of the US I consider myself a liberal WRT human rights (except that I
support the 2nd amendment) and conservative WRT fiscal issues. But this
is imperfect too.
> I despise everything liberalism is and what it stands for.
Wow.
> I am and always will be a moral, and economic conservative.
Wow. I'm glad that I can't claim that. I strongly favor improvement.
> I agree everyone, regardless of race, sex, religious background, etc. should
> have equal protection.
Right. That's a belief that we all have in common now, but it was
liberals fighting to make that happen against a conservative tide that
liked the status quo. That's how we get progress. I agree that US
liberals seem (right now) to be hell-bent on bankrupting the US but
they're just trying to fix some problems. As usual, they're going about
it all wrong, but they come up with some pretty good ideas now and again.
> I do not agree that because I am black or homosexual or a woman, that means that I
> DESERVE special privileges, such as lowering of
> standards to get into college, or the military, etc. That is wrong. I really
Wow, I didn't realize that you were a black lesbian. Scott is an
unusual name for a black woman ;-)
I agree, mostly. In an ideal world (Libertopia would be getting us
closer) we wouldn't have to even consider such things, but in our
current world, where such government meddling is normal, I'm not sure
that sometimes affirmative action is a bad thing. For instance, is it
possible that getting blacks into (and graduated from) college to
provide role-models to other blacks is a terrific investment in the
future? What if $30K spent that way saves us $100K in welfare? (I'm
not picking on blacks, I really mean the lower SES segment regardless of
ethnicity which is largely irrelevant.)
The big harm (aside from stealing my money to fund it) that affirmative
action does is helping people to succeed such that they never get to
know if they succeeded based on their own merit, or only did so due to
assistance. Same with welfare programs - they are degrading and people
using them long enough start to forget that. They get used to being
leaches and forget what it is to be human.
> As far as I can remember, Lincoln ended slavery,
> there were a lot of both Republican and Democratic people on both sides of the
> issue. The biggest segregationists were Southern Democrats, however. I think
> slavery was horrid, and segregation equally as bad, and I am glad people stood
> up for that and got it changed.
1) I don't thing segregation was equally bad, morally it was better and
actually is was better for some and worse for others.
2) What are you getting at with the slavery thing? I'm not getting it.
> Don't use that, however, for ever single issue, because it is not prevalent anymore.
> It's history, learn from it, and never repeat it.
It's not prevalent, but it is still relevant. Negroes in the US really
missed the boat in a big big way and nothing serious has been done to
fix it. I'm not sure what can be. And I know it's wrong to hire people
just because of their race, but I think that the average Negro in the US
has a mindset that is less likely to bring fiscal success than the
average Caucasian.
--
Sincerely,
Christopher L. Weeks
central Missouri, USA
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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| (...) I'm totally lost. Could you clarify, Chris? (I should have gotten more sleep last night!) (...) Isn't a mob rule like 500 people outside a building, for example, demanding a hanging? (...) Most corporations and government agencies do illegal (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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| (...) You were assuring me that this wonderful democracy works to protect the lives of the citizens, I think. You said "I was talking more of a constitutional democracy, where the people have certain rights (a.k.a. Bill of Rights) and protection (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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| <37936594.15C0AA85@c...souri.edu> <379414EC.A40DFA0F@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Well, I know there are a bunch of kids being raised as wards of the state instead of with loving (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
|
| (...) It's a simplified definition, I think you are talking about direct democracy, I was talking more of a constitutional democracy, where the people have certain rights (a.k.a. Bill of Rights) and protection from being murdered and so forth. A (...) (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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