Subject:
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Re: The Nam-shub of Enki (was Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:31:58 GMT
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Viewed:
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584 times
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Actually, while I stand by my previous post, you bring up some pretty decent
arguements here...
"richard marchetti" <blueofnoon@aol.com> wrote in message
news:GMunx4.D0I@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Adam Wood writes:
> > You really like 'Snow Crash' by Neal Stephenson? If you haven't read it, • you
> > should. The entire book is about Nam-Shubs and 'neurolinguistic hacking'.
> > Very cyber..
>
> I read Stephenson's novel last year, and while I liked it, I don't think • he
> ever gets any more interesting than his obvious sources: Sumerian • mythology,
> and William Burroughs. And I guess I fault Stephenson, and many other
> Cyberpunk authors, for not weighing in more heavily with Burroughs' more
> interesting project -- the fight for freedom (more realistically against
> multinational corporations than against goverments, although both are
> implicated). Instead, they weigh in more heavily on stealing his • techniques
> of pulling off the cover and looking under the boards of reality. But
> looking and giggling is different than looking and doing something about
it.
I really find it interesting that so many people bring the whole cyberpunk
genre down to Burroughs' level. Other than Burroughs saying 'smash the
state' I honestly can't see too many similarities. I find it bizare that
people analyse him. They try to take 'Naked Lunch' and intrept it as a
powerful work, but he himself said in the introduction he doesn't remember
writing most of it. The most you can analyse something like this is bringing
it down to the basic thought pattern of a person. Much the same way as
Jackson Polock's paintings have been broken down to 'fractal thinking'.
Break 'em down to numbers, but all you have is raw data - it don't mean
much.
>
> In a strange way, and esp. because I live in the United States, I remain
> unconvinced that computer geeks aren't some version of Burroughs' "Ugly
> American" figure. Despite some early image-shaping efforts on the part of
> the "Cyberpunks" and their ilk, your average computer geek is rushing us
> towards a REALLY scary Database Nation/Rollerball future -- and All Hail • Our
> Corporate Sponsors! I'll allow that Stephenson himself might have been
> having a private joke when his "Hiro" dons the appearance of a "Gargoyle,"
> covered in technology in the final parts of the novel -- but I'm not sure
> there wasn't a genuine technological glee underlying the • characterization --
> confusing love of technology with erotism.
Back to Burroghs. imho When Burroughs is taking a dig at the ugly american,
he isn't just taking a dig at the people that support corporate america.
He's taking a dig at the _consumer_ and the fact they are fundamentally the
ones supporting 'corporate america'. I think this was Burroughs whole
frustration. Everyone consumes, and need to. But to avoid the scarey
multi-nationals, you have to stop consuming, which is fundamentally
impossible.
Seriously, I wouldn't say your average hacker is out to try and land us in
the pockets of corporate america. There are always going to be people that
want to use their skills to make a living, rather than crush the state, and
this will be the mainstream, but who doesn't want ultimate financial
security? It's a case of Hiro vs. the Feds. Hiro was an outstanding mind,
well above average and was able to make a living off it. Most people are
very average (hence the term, 'average') and couldn't do the same. I'd have
to question the point of loyalty as portrayed by the Feds though. But I
don't think your average computer geek is trying to rush us anywhere. It's
the corporate sponsors that are trying to run us toward a database nation (I
think you mean database 'world'. There is more than just the US at stake
here....). The geeks are just trying to get by. By going out to work for
anything bigger than a Mom-n-Pop store, or even by paying your taxes,
believe it or not that's what you're doing. See my point above about
Burroughs.
Back to Stephenson :) The Gargoyles are originally seen as freaks, something
strange and to be avoided. They absorb information and store it. But when
Hiro dons his outfit, it is sleek and small, and he is only using it for
thawt the takeover of the world. (yay!) He is using his power for good, not
evil. As for seeing it as erotic? Get your mind out of the gutter >:-) Why
not just shun the body (or even get a better one, aka Ng) and live in VR?
>
> Control of *information* is very much the point, and sadly no comicbook
> Hiros will magickally appear to stop the schemes of the "Ugly American."
> Frankly, most such hackers learn just enough dangerous code to enter into
> the data security industry as consultants and full-time sys admins. Where
> are the warriors from within? Where are the "Wild Boys" of the new age of
> information?
>
> Collecting paychecks, of course. Just like Oppenheimer when he built the • bomb.
>
You can't honestly be saying that nuclear power, or any powerful tool, is
wrong? Nuclear power has always been with us. If Oppenheimer didn't give us
the key, eventually someone else would have. The tool itself is benign. It's
the hand that holds the tool that decides whether to hammer in a nail and
build a house, or to bludgeon your nextdoor neighbour to death. If your
'Wild Boys' had the bomb should they be handing it out to everyone? Or
getting paid to make sure that 'knoweldgable' and/or 'sensible' decsions
(whatever the hell -they- are) are made with what to do with it?
> There is something key that is lost on most Americans: Freedom is NOT • free,
> and you shouldn't actively work for the enemy even when the pay is good. • Not
> even when it looks cool, ala Mondo 2000.
It was a yank that said 'The price of liberty (freedom) is eternal
vigilence'. Corporate America isn't out-ta-getcha. They're only looking out
for their own best interests. OK - nine time out of ten, their best
interests don't travel the same path as yours, but the 'Western World' runs
on free market. Just keep looking to make sure you aren't about to get steam
rolled is all. And to finish on a metaphor - More people are killed by
viruses each year than guns. If you want to subvert the way an industry is
headed, become part of it and change direction from within, rather than
repeatedly charging head-on into it. They are much bigger than you and
you'll only get a sore head.
>
> And you see, the problem is that most people WILL read Stephenson and NOT
> William Burroughs. More's the pity...
I read Stephenson, and I still don't claim to be an expert on Burroughs
(I've only read three of his books, and listened to hours of his spoken
word), but I prefer Greg Egan, Hunter S Thompson and Kirk Vonnegut for my
philosophies...
>
> For that matter, they could do worse than read Sumerian mythology.
Like reading the bible... <---joke!!! kinda... 80P~~~
Pax.
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