Subject:
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Re: More on Palestine
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 14 Oct 2001 06:41:16 GMT
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Viewed:
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584 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > I am convinced the proper weapon was used. Not once, but twice.
>
> Perhaps the proper weapon WAS used but WHOM it targeted is the issue here.
> It was the wrong thing to do. Eisenhower thought the same too.
>
> > I don't buy
> > the "showing off to the Russians" bit but even if that *was* part of the
> > motive, you know what? Bravo.
>
> Actually, it IS an historical fact that the Japanese were tapped out
Do you have a cite for that?
> and
> were in the process of seeking a "face saving" surrender using the Russians
> as intermediaries.
Surrender to the Russians would have been unacceptable. We had set goals for
this war and it is important to set goals and stick to them. Our current
little war is somewhat lacking in concrete measurable goals which I think
will lead to trouble.
WW II goals, as agreed to between Roosevelt and Churchill were unconditional
surrender of all 3 Axis powers. No negotiated surrender, no surrender to
third parties. There were good and sufficient reasons for those goals and
deviating would have resulted in an unsatisfactory outcome.
> Truman ignored this and went ahead with the bombing, by
> his own admission in revealed documents, to scare off the Russians.
Do you have a cite for that? "The Nation" doesn't count.
> So, just
> for the record Larry, you commend the murder of hundreds of thousands of
> defenseless men, women and children, wiped clean from the face of the earth
> for the sake of showing our military might to the Russians? You think this
> was a good thing, even though it has been revealed as unnecessary?
Unless you hold that all war is murder no matter what, it is inaccurate to
categorise use of a weapon during war as murder. I commend use of the
appropriate weapon for the situation. Any death is regrettable but war is
war and deaths happen during wartime. Or do you think one can win a war with
no death whatever? Would you rather we had invaded Japan and possibly paid
millions of deaths on our side to find out that they weren't actually ready
to surrender after all? We had just went through the conquest of Okinawa,
one of the bloodiest butchers bills of the whole war.
Just to reiterate, I dispute that these bombings were "unnecessary". You are
engaged in historical revisionism which is deplorable in and of itself, but
since you have a nodding acquaintance with truth at best, it's not too
surprising.
> > We already *knew* the USSR was an evil empire too.
>
> I suppose you voted for Ronny, eh?
What is that supposed to mean? Some sort of slur against a fairly good
president, or belittlement of me because I use the appropriate phrase for
the situation (are you saying the USSR *wasn't* evil or wasn't an empire?
Wake up. We knew how bad/evil the USSR was before the war, and I am sure we
never would have taken them as an ally if we thought we could win without
them) or revealing your bias, or what?
As it happens I voted libertarian in 1980 and in 1984 (and in 1988 and in
1992 and in 1996 and in 2000...), so no, I did not vote for Ronald Reagan.
But what if I had? He did finally win the war whether you like it or not.
> > To our shame we took the wrong strategy for many many years and only
> > vanquished them in 1990 instead of in 1946 when we had the first opportunity
> > to do so.
>
> Buddy, we've taken the wrong strategy on lots of things. Wake up.
What value add is this comment? Please cite where I have said the US has a
perfect decision making record. Or did you just want to get another jibe in
for no reason? Give that a rest.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: More on Palestine
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| (...) Two articles I recall off the top of my head, one in "Time" and one in "Newsweek," as well as a lengthy documentary on the History Channel. On the web, here's a historian who has done extensive research on the matter. You actually have to take (...) (23 years ago, 14-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: More on Palestine
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| (...) Perhaps the proper weapon WAS used but WHOM it targeted is the issue here. It was the wrong thing to do. Eisenhower thought the same too. (...) Actually, it IS an historical fact that the Japanese were tapped out and were in the process of (...) (23 years ago, 13-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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