Subject:
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Re: Violence created by presence of guns? (was: Gotta love Oracle...)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:09:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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698 times
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Pedro Silva wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes:
> > Lawrence Wilkes wrote:
> >
> > > "Tom Stangl, VFAQman" <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote in message news:3BC2954C.27A2A300@vfaq.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > You're comparing vastly different countries, with different mindsets. Compare
> > > > within a country, especially within the US, and you'll see that states that allow
> > > > easy lawful access to guns tend to have lower violent crime rates.
> > >
> > > How are the US, Canada, and the UK "vastly different countries, with different mindsets"?
> >
> > How are they NOT? While they share many similarities, can you seriously say the mindset of the
> > country as a whole is the same between them?
>
> And what about *inside* them? Are these three nations that homogeneous?
>
> > Canada and the UK seem to lean too far to the Socialist side compared to the US, IMO. There are
> > many other differences, and I'm sure many others in here can bring them up if needed.
>
> OTOH, it can be said the US are too far to the Conservative side... it
> depends of the reference you take for "Centre".
>
> > > > Compare apples to apples, not oranges.
> > >
> > > It seems to me the above is comparing apples with apples.
> >
> > Not hardly. Canada and the UK don't have the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights
> > as their basis (and neither will the US if some foamers have their way!).
>
> Yes, but the UK did not need a Declaration of Independance, and the
> Canadians did not need a war to become a country - hence, no need for a
> formal document to break ties *harshly*.
> As for the Bill of Rights, I'm sure they have laws as solid as the
> Constitution and the Ammendments to it (maybe with different names). If I
> recall correctly, the BoR are the first 10 Ammendments to the US
> Constitution, so are included in the last sentence.
While I don't have any knowledge of the laws of Canada and the UK, I'm
pretty confident the rights enshrined in the US Constitution are not as
well protected in Canada and the UK.
> > > Perhaps you only want to compare apples with guns against apples with guns.
> >
> > That would make sense, since we're talking about guns in this thread, you know.
>
> We weren't, you know?
> They were called here by a statement, yet to be proved, that Europeans
> citizens have less rights than their American counterparts. Why guns always
> "pop out" when Rights are discussed, that would be a nice issue to discuss -
> it seems to me the fundamental right (and almost single one), for some
> people, is the right to bear arms.
The right to bear arms is not the "almost single one (right)", but it is
incredibly important. If you read more than just The Bill of Rights (and
I admit that I haven't read a lot more than that, but I've read enough I
feel to make this claim), you would find that the right to bear arms is
fundamental to the guarantee of the free state (in fact, one need only
read the first paragraph of The Declaration of Independence to see one
such supporting statement: "When in the Course of human Events, it
becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which
have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the
Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of
Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind
requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the
Separation").
Another point which may not be so obvious is that the government which
trusts it's citizens with the power to overthrow the government becomes
more worthy of those citizens trust.
Frank
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