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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > Which part of the following doesn't seem like Larry's answer?
> > I reject that 500K children in Iraq have died since sanctions were imposed.
> > That statistic itself is questionable. I note you haven't debunked it,
> > merely cited it again.
> >
> > I reject that the sanctions are the REASON that children (however many)
> > died. The sanctions do not prevent the flow of food into the country.
> >
> > I reject that even if the sanctions actually *caused* the death of even 1
> > child that it's the fault of the imposers of the sanctions for the deaths.
> > The *fault* lies with the lawless dictator Hussein, not the US.
> That is 100% opinion on his part. I offer facts/independent 3rd party
> opinion. Larry offers his opinion. I see a difference between the two. If
> it turns out that Larry has expert experience of this field, he should be
> able to substantiate his opinion. If he has some understanding of this
> field, he should be able to substantiate his opinion. If he is just being
> obtuse, he may not be able to.
It isn't necessary to have specific and detailed knowledge of
international policy, nor of the workings of foreign governments and the
dynamics of sanctions. All that is necessary is a critical examination
(which Larry has given) of the relevant data.
First: On what basis do we determine that 500K children have died? Are
there organized census programs in Iraq to account for these children? Are
the bereaved parents filing reports with local officials for each lost
child? Is some agency performing a body count? In short, it's not
sufficient to claim that 500K children have died without supporting the
claim with information about how the number was determined; we cannot be
expected to accept that number (horrific if true, I grant you) on faith
alone, which is what we are being asked to do.
Second: IF we accept that 500K children have died, it is imperative to
identify why these children have died. Do factors internal to Iraq prevent
food from being distributed to the populace? Is disease, due to poor
sanitation or environmental elements, a possible factor? As Larry has
pointed out, the sanctions do not stop food from entering the country, so if
that food is not being distributed to the masses, that's hardly the fault of
the US.
Third: IF we accept that 500K children have died, and IF we accept that
they have died as a result of the sanctions, we still cannot assign the
blame for the children's death to the US. It is readily apparent that
Hussein lives in luxury while the citizens of Iraq suffer in abject squalor.
It is entirely within his power to have the sanctions lifted, and even if he
chooses not to do so, it is entirely within his power to establish domestic
programs to aid Iraqi citizens, rather than continuing a military buildup at
the expense of those citizens. As such, the "fault" for the continued
deaths of children lies with the person most readily able to prevent them;
ie: Hussein.
Therefore, Larry's assertion is absolutely not "100% opinion on his part"
but is instead a conclusion reached by appropriate examination of the data.
Inconsistencies within those data (or how they are presented) are
self-evident, so one can hardly be faulted for pointing out such
shortcomings. Even if further evidence proves the data to be correct, it is
premature to accept them in the absence of such evidence. In addition,
conclusions based solely upon faulty data will themselves naturally be
faulty, so I fail to understand why the identification of such faults is a
problem.
Dave!
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: War
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| It sounds like we are functioning under the assumption that blame can only be assigned to one entity. I don't think that's so. And I think that we share the blame with Hussein. But how much? (...) It sounds like you are asserting that if Hussein (...) (23 years ago, 2-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: War
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| Dave I have provided support for my argument. I have never said that I think 500,000 have died due to sanctions. Never. I disagree with Larry when he says none have died. I think a great deal have, but I have no idea how many. That is my argument. I (...) (23 years ago, 2-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: War
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| (...) That is 100% opinion on his part. I offer facts/independent 3rd party opinion. Larry offers his opinion. I see a difference between the two. If it turns out that Larry has expert experience of this field, he should be able to substantiate his (...) (23 years ago, 2-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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