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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mladen Pejic writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mladen Pejic writes:
> > > I'm very suprised (almost shocked!) that you say this? Don't you know how • many
> > > millions of Russians died during WWII??? [1] 25,568,000!!! These are the
> > > highest casualties in the entire war
> >
> > The only question is how many of these 25 million did Stalin off himself
> > (there should be a smiley here, but it is kind of hard to use one when
> > talking about this kinda of mega-death).
>
> No comment, I really can't pick a side.
I can. The Neutral countries'. We (Portugal and others) managed to keep the
population alive and even earning money out of others misery. Our position
was very... odd. We lend the Azores to the UK, later the USA - while we were
selling Tungsten to the Nazis, and keeping their gold. It was a win-win
situation. And our conscience is clean - it was not our war.
> He probably was a killer, but he sure did a lot for his country... Much like
> Hitler... Ooo... That doesn't sound good. ;-)
>
> Honestly, I'd love to find a leader who doesn't do horrible things when he is
> in power. Remember: "Power corrupts." Bush bombs Iraq, Clinton bombed Serbia...
Try "Ghandhi". If he has done horrible things, name 'em please.
(snipped)
> > > The Soviet army destroyed (i.e. completely) practically all the German armies
> > > that had invaded the U.S.S.R.
> >
> > The death camps you don't hear about - if Hitler was a bigger monster, it
> > wasn't because Stalin didn't try. (another dubious smiley placement)
>
> Well, you do forget that Germany was the aggressor and ATTACKED the U.S.S.R.
> Destroyed a lot of its infrastructure, killed lots of Russian civilians, etc.
Ah, yes. But the Soviets HAD made a pact with the Nazis. And I'm pretty sure
it was NOT a *political* alliance, as Stalin should have known - it could
only be temporary. So Stalin should have expected it.
And Stalin did order Katyn...
> I wonder what you would do to an enemy who did this to your country and people?
Good question. I'd be killed, because I would be a conscript on sniper duty.
So I would not have to do anything about it after. That is my perspective -
to die fighting rather than to die trembling before the invader. So I see
your point. And somehow agree.
> > > Sorry, this post does sound very one sided, but not enough is said about the
> > > U.S.S.R. and it's role in WWII. However, most Americans love
> > > violent pro-American WWII movies which glorify the war, and the U.S.S.R. and
> > > its allies were the "Evil Commies" (yes, that was sarcasm), so this should • not
> > > be very suprising. ;-)
> >
> > But they were the Evil Commies! That doesn't mean the suffering and
> > sacrifice of the common person was any less real, of course, nor should
> > their efforts to subdue the common foe be belittled (it should be noted that
> > as much as we ignore the Russian efforts, they were even worse).
>
> In my laziest response, whatever. Those are your beliefs; I could care less.
>
> >
> > I should note the recent "Enemy at the Gates" (okay, I believe that was a
> > British production) on the movie front.
>
> Yeah, that was pretty bad. Especially the whole anti-socialist stuff the actors
> uttered inbetween fights. ;-)
Agree - yet I do believe that the Russians fought so hard because of a
genuine patriotism, not because of the government. We have seen such kind of
attitude before and since. Russians ARE patriotic, maybe even more than
americans. On the average, that is.
Pedro
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) many (...) No comment, I really can't pick a side. He probably was a killer, but he sure did a lot for his country... Much like Hitler... Ooo... That doesn't sound good. ;-) Honestly, I'd love to find a leader who doesn't do horrible things (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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