 | | New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | Dear All There was a letter in last week's New Civil Engineer which I shall reproduce for you: "I support the suggestion made by your correspondent (nCE 7 June) that Meccano be adopted by schools to assist in the study of construction. Unfortunately (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch) !
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| | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) The man has a point. The typical construction of an inexperienced student isn't likely to hang together very well, especially if it's built using tall columns of basic bricks, etc. And things that don't hang together don't demonstrate (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —James Powell
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| | | | | | | (...) Yes, but...Lego is easier to work with to provide the physical reality of the design. Take a wall, make it of 2x bricks non interlaced...and push a ball at it from a height. See how the ball goes right through the wall...now interlace the (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Jennifer Clark
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| | | | | | | (...) I sortof see this and sortof don't. If they are talking specifically about civil engineering then fair enough, and I suppose the fact that you can "legally" bend meccano parts in ways not really possible with Lego could be relevant, but one of (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Because you know all the idioms. To draw an analogy, I can code in C++ or Java a lot faster than I can in Lisp, because I know more idioms and patterns. That doesn't (in and of itself) make C++ *better* than Lisp, just different. You need a (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Jennifer Clark
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Yup, that certainly is a large part of it, and I don't think there is any point in my life where my skill (or lack thereof) at the two systems was equal therefore allowing a valid comparison. I think there is something else though, a mindset, (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Steve Lane
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Death traps? Ever had your wiring checked? :-) only joking. I once saw a Sabre jet crafted in Meccano. It was very well done, especially hard as it's not cylindrical along it's lenght, but tapers toward the tail. Must have required some neat (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Hi Larry. Correct me if I misunderstand but you appear to be saying that the Lego idioms are quicker to learn than for the other construction toys. We also appear to agree that the writers perception is wrong. Do you support me attempting to (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, very much so! I think it would be a great idea to do so! What I am trying to say is that if you understand why the writer has the perception he does, and counteract it, I think your letter will be much more powerful. I think I see why he (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Very much so, except my home PC is useless and I'm not allowed to download files at work so I can't get the document (plus I've never done an FTP before and I don't really understand it (I'm a Civil Engineer not an IT specialist, dammit!) I'll (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Okay. Now I know how FTP works (i.e seamlessly, it wasn't like that in 1994 when I was at University!) As Gael says that is a cool article, just one question. Did the Constructopedia ever go online? I have never seen any reference to it on Lugnet. (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) It hits the salient points. As you say it may need a bit of shortening. But overall, it's brill. (Even though it doesn't even mention the vast civil engineering possibilities afforded by use of the Train parts. (1)) 1 - that last bit was a (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Thomas (T. J.) Avery
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Large steel structures (i.e. buildings and bridges) are welded and BOLTED together. Rivets are rarely used anymore in these structures. (...) Friction pins are an excellent connector because they are easy and convenient to use, but they lack (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Noted. You're absolutely right. It's been a while since my degree and I'm a railway engineer now, sorry about that slip up. I must go back and review my notes on egg-sucking too!! (...) So should I leave the part about Lego being no worse for (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Thomas (T. J.) Avery
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I think for ease of use, Lego parts (like a Technic beam) are certainly better. You'd still have to build-up a Technic beam to get an "I" or box section, but the Technic beam by itself is relatively strong and as you say, is "a decent member". (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) (URL) an admittedly a short search this is the best I've found. L girders are present in very long lengths and they do make pawls! but I don't think there are any small bevel gears. What do you think are the biggest omissions and which (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Johannes Keukelaar
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | "SB" == Simon Bennett <simon.bennett@ntlworld.com> writes: SB> LMAO about this... (URL) !!! SB> A bit of a surf starting here may yield a bit of information but SB> there's clearly less web support for Meccano than for Lego. (URL) does seem to work. (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | "Simon Bennett" <simon.bennett@ntlworld.com> skrev i meddelandet news:GFwFDH.8JM@lugnet.com... (...) As far as I know, Meccano has 'L'-beams, and perhaps 'U' too? At least there are large plates, with folded sides, which is effectively a 'U'. (I (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Alex Farlie
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Ok, I am A computing person not a cival enginer but here are my comments (...) Additonaly thier is the fact that in many cases Lego parts are over engineered! Whilst meccano parts are fine for more traditonal mechanical designs. I feel that with (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Steve Lane
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well after recently observing a diff case bend under heavy loading, I'm inclined to disagree. I'd say most Technic parts are engineered to just the right standard to withstand normal usage and loadings. As regards the diff case, it was the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Chris Fenter
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.technic, Alex Farlie writes: (snip!) (...) FYI, Modulex is actually an advanced Architectural Signage company (www.modulex.com) founded by, and associated with TLG, operating internationally (& is also based in Billund) which, amongst many (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Meccano vs. Lego (Re: New Civil Engineer letter) —Thomas (T. J.) Avery
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| | | | | | | | | | | | I've looked through two sources of Meccano information: the main website: (URL) a parts list: (URL) opinion now, after being more educated on what Meccano has to offer, is that Lego is probably best, depending on how you intend to use it. If a (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Jason J. Railton
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, I had both Meccano and Lego as a kid, and I can tell you that the Meccano didn't get a look in, past building a few things from the instructions. I really tried, but Meccano was just so slow to construct anything, and you couldn't really (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | (...) I sit firmly in the 'sort of don't' camp. I'm going to do a little more work on this tonight, particularly in terms of the ways in which Meccano models civils better than Lego (in my opinion none). (...) One of the reasons why I never liked (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic, lugnet.loc.uk)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) I think that would be great!!! Like I said, if you can dig out that reference to the fellow from MIT (I think his first name is Fred) and his work on idioms, that would make it even better... I am so bumming that I can't find it. It's not on (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic, lugnet.loc.uk)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Jennifer Clark
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| | | | | | | | (...) I think this is it: ftp://cherupakha.med...oflego.pdf Jennifer (URL) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic, lugnet.loc.uk)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Gael Frazier
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| | | | | | | | (...) That's a cool article. Even if it is from 1995. It is really relevant. Each point is illustrated with a picture. Gael (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic, lugnet.loc.uk)
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| | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —John Barnes
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| | | | | | I feel compelled to add; When I was a Meccanno fan, some years ago now, and the proud owner of a Set 10, complete with drawer cabinet, Lego hadn't invented gear wheels yet. Because we had Lego too, and it was the construction toy of choice for (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Jennifer Clark
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| | | | | | (...) I remember years ago a friend of mine having this; if I remember correctly it was a bit odd, with flexible tubes that kindof slotted into other pieces. It seemed ok but somewhat limited in what you could do with it. I had no idea it was still (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —James Stacey
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| | | | | What a petty, hasn't meccano gone bust. on another point My fiancee who is a civil engineer is always nicking my lego to use as illustrations for construction techniques James "Simon Bennett" <simon.bennett@ntlworld.com> wrote in message (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch)
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| | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Jason J. Railton
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| | | | | (...) I think it's probably been written by someone who missed out on the whole Technic line by being quite old and narrow-minded. Since when did Meccano have a helicopter swashplate on their parts inventory? And can you build epicyclic gearboxes (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch)
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| | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Christopher Tracey
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| | | | | (...) My wife used to work for the American Society of Civil Engineers and to the best of my recollection, that organization is really into using KNEX for educational purposes. She did bring in LEGO for a 'play' area for a bring your kid to work day (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch)
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| | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | (...) If only the Institution of Civil Engineers had a 'construction toy position'! In my opinion they do not do enough to promote civils amoing schoolchildren and when they do (usually at the 14-16 level) they tend to use spaghetti or straws for (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Santosh Bhat
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| | | | | | During my first year of Civil Engineering, we had a project of building a model bridge using paddlepop sticks (Australian term), i'm not sure what they're called around the world, but their the wooden sticks you get with ice creams bought in (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) In the US we commonly call them Popsicle sticks, but that's actually a case of trademark dilution, as Popsicle is a trademark for a brand of "paddle pops". I think there is a generic name but I forget what it is. Note that these sticks are (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | | (...) Paddle pop is accually the brand name of a particular type of icecream. (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Santosh Bhat
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| | | | | | (...) Paddle Pop is also a particular Brand as Jonathan has pointed out. I'm not really sure what a generic term would be? I know other guys have had to build bridges using balsa wood. The spaghetti usage must only happen at a lower primary school (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) LLC and LLW have some very large scale Technic parts, but I think they're made of fiberglass rather than ABS, and no doubt have steel armatures. (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic)
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| | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —George Haberberger
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| | | | (...) I think he's right. I have a BS degree in Aerospace Engineering, and took many courses in engineering mechanics. The simplifications used in engineering mechanies are better modeled by Meccano (or Erector sets) than in Lego. Techniq is better (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch)
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| | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | (...) Thanks George, I agree with much of this and am glad someone has taken the opposite view. BUT... From the context of the original letter I think the author is referring to education well below undergraduate level where analysis will not be (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch)
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| | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —George Haberberger
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| | | | | | (...) Reading your letter, I think you should send it, my remarks are better suited for an undergraduate class, or perhaps a high level high school class. I don't have any Civil Engineering background (other than that which would have been common to (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | (...) I have now sent the letter. I didn't change it that much and it's still very long but I wanted to get it out there before I got cold feet about sending it at all! The text was: "Dear Sir I would like to take the opportunity to respond to (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | In lugnet.loc.uk, Simon Bennett writes: <snip> (...) <snip> You rock. Very nicely done. I think I speak for a number of people when I say "thanks for doing this, well done!" ++Lar (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Cheers Larry, I've got a nice warm Lugnetty 'included' feeling now! All we have to do now is just sit back and watch New Civil Engineer not publish it! Psi (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Steve Baker
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes - nicely said. One difference that *is* significant from an educational standpoint (IMHO) is the use of tools. Meccano really does require you to use a screwdriver and spanner (aka wrench)...where Lego doesn't really require tools at all (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | RE: New Civil Engineer letter —Ralph Hempel
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| | | | | | | | (...) Ummm, can you adopt older (39 yrs) kids like myself? :-) Cheers, Ralph (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | (...) [text snipped] (...) Well, I didn't comment yet in this thread, because I'm not an engineer or a teacher (though I did start in engineering at uni), and I hadn't really thought much about it. I did have one small Meccano set when I was a kid, (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Simon Bennett
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Crikey ROSCO, all I did was write a letter, you built the bridge! Psi (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | | | "Ross Crawford" <rcrawford@csi.com> skrev i meddelandet news:GG1utI.nE@lugnet.com... (...) what (...) Meccano is also juniorizing, and putting out more "models" and less basic sets. -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Thomas (T. J.) Avery
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| | | | | | (...) That's great, Simon! I hope all of our comments and input were constructive enough. Your final revision of the letter was not too long, hit some very important points, and certainly made a good argument that Lego is a better "building system". (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.mediawatch, lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: New Civil Engineer letter —Thomas (T. J.) Avery
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| | | | (...) True, you do end up with a 4-wide eccentric connection. However, gusset plates can be used instead of trying to line up 4 members on a common pin. This can be accomplished by using extra beams or other members at the joint. You may not end up (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.technic)
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