Subject:
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Re: Lego Buildings with 4 Walls
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.general
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Date:
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Wed, 4 May 2005 00:55:53 GMT
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CJMASI@*NOGARBAGEPLEASE*RCN.COMihatespam
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917 times
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Gary Istok wrote:
> I was looking at the #4886 Designers set in the Lugnet set database yesterday.
> And there were a few things that troubled me about it. Not the design per se,
> but just the whole concept of going from a "minifig" environment (3 walls,
> juniorized parts, furniture and minifigs) back to an "architectural" environment
> (4 walls, no juniorization, no building contents such as furniture and
> minifigs).
>
> From the very beginning in 1949 until the mid 1970's Lego was an architectural
> toy for building buildings with 4 walls and no interior building contents. Then
> starting in the mid 1970's until the present Lego went to becoming a building
> toy with buildings that had 3 walls, and minifigs, sort of like a doll house set
> (although I'm sure most AFOLs don't like that comparison).
I would guess that it isn't the AFOL's that would disparage the "doll
house" comparison, but I bet the 8-10 year old boys might have a problem
with it.
> But before I get to that discussion, there is another thing that troubled me.
> That was the fact that TLG gave us a nice design (#4886) with scarce 1x4x3
Those lucky enough to live near a pick-a-brick location know that
1x4x3's aren't that scarce. However, even at the pab wall, those windows
are selling without any inserts.
> windows, and lots of tiles and roof bricks. But what is more noteworthy is what
> was missing. This house was SCREAMING for end gable 1x2x2 windows in black.
> And two more 1x2x2 black windows for the back side of the house (instead of a
> blank wall). Those vent like thingy's at the two gable ends are just plain
> awful. And I don't think it was originally intended that way. I'll bet that
> the set designers wanted some of those 1x2x2 black classic windows. BUT, there
> is a director somewhere at the company HQ in Billund who has control of the
> parts by color, and he probably said that "we have not produced those black
> 1x2x2 windows in over 20 years (not since Train sets of the early 80's), so they
> are retired in that color and we won't be producing them again". Granted those
> 1x2x2 black windows are highly desired (I have 2 myself) and have been sold for
> about $10-$16 on Bricklink.
Holy carp (you know, those orange little fish)! I have the same number
of 1x2x2 black windows as Gary!? I didn't think that it was posible that
I would ever have the same number of any kind of window as Gary :)
But I'll agree, it would be nice to see more windows in more colors.
> It seems that TLG is very stingy when it comes to re-issuing windows in colors
> that have not been produced in 20 years. This is not the same way for other
> bricks. I have 4 2x2 inside corner white regular sloped bricks that I got from
> 2 copies of a circa 1977 Helicopter/Ambulance set (#770). These were highly
> prized by me since I know that no other set had them. Until, that is, the Harry
> Potter Screaming Shack came out recently. Now these same white pieces can be
> purchased for less that 25 cents each on Bricklink. Why TLG doesn't do the same
> thing for current production windows is very baffling to me. That is why I
> blame someone in the Billund corporate beaurocracy.
Write the Harry Potter people and get them to use some very cool
windows, which could only be modeled using "old style" LEGO windows, in
their movies.
Except for the fact that 4886 uses black 1x4x3 windows (are those
currently being used in anything else?) it looks very much like it
should be a 10xxx set. The 10xxx sets have been very cool, but a lot of
them look like they have been put together from pieces that were
_available_ not necessarily the pieces that the desingers wanted. So, I
agree, somewhat, with your theory. I would also add, however, that more
windows makes the set more expensive. I think 4886 has a very good brick
per dollar ratio, and for better or worse, that is an important
consideration. Adding more windows would lower that brick per dollar
ratio without adding that much more appeal for the target audience,
which is too say not you and not me.
> OK, now to get back to the Architectural sets with 4 walls. I noticed that the
> #4886 has over 650 pieces. Wow, I was surprised by that. I was just looking at
> the parts count for the old 1960's Town Plan sets (#810/#725) and they also
> contained about the same number of parts, but they created 7 buildings, not one!
>
> Therein lies a problem that Lego has with new 4 wall constructions. In the
> 1949-75 era the Lego scale was 1:87 (door = 3 bricks tall). Today it is more
> like 1:43 (door = 6 bricks tall). So doubling the scale doesn't double the
> volume of a building, it makes it 8 TIMES AS LARGE!!! (2 wide x 2 long x 2 tall
> = 8). And it is this minifig scale that is hindering (IMHO) TLG from producing
> some nice real architectural buildings.
Well, since LEGO has not been particularly well know for buidling scale
models, it is probably wouldn't be quite 2 x 2 x 2. Some of the
dimensions would be compressed. Nonetheless, you are rigth, building a
minifig scale makes "architectural" sets unlikely.
[snip] an example
> Why should TLG produce architectural sets in a classic scale? Because I think
> that there is a large "untapped" market of folks who are not Lego fans per se,
> but who are interested in architecture. I am subscriber to the "National Trust"
> magazine. It is for the National Trust For Historic Preservation, and has
> nearly 700,000 members. If TLG marketted some architectural sets to this
> market, I bet more than a few would be interested.
That is an easy bet for us to make though because we don't have to make
that gamble. Also, to make such a niche within a niche profitable, I
suspect that the sets would have to be expensive.
[snip marketing comments]
> mentioned Main Street theme. Imagine a Main Street Miami Beach Art Deco street,
> with pastel colored buildings with curved corners, glass block windows, and
> curved architectural elements.
Much of this could be done today. We have macaroni glass (true they have
notches (yes, I've been reading your posts:), 1x2x2 clear glass panels,
1x2x1 glass bricks, and pastel LEGO.
(I bet those German tourists to Miami Beach's
> South Beach would gobble those up from souvenir shops!).
But boy is that a niche market within a niche...
> Granted any return to a classic scale would mean the introduction of new
> window/door elements (since 9 out of 10 of the original 1:87 classic scale
> windows/doors are discontinued). But as has been shown with the black 1x2x2
> windows, it is easier to create new Lego elements than it is to re-introduce old
> ones.
>
> Now, I know that 95% of all AFOLs build in the 1:43 minifig scale. It sure
> wouldn't seem fair to produce new windows/doors for a classic 1:87 scale, and
> just have the same old "slim pickings" of windows/doors in the 1:43 minifig
> scale. Well, if TLG did produce some windows/doors in the 1:87 classic scale,
> they should produce the same ones (or some of the same ones) in a larger 1:43
> minifig scale.
Since minifigs have a "scale" of their own, I would argue that window
scale issues aren't that big. Afterall, AFOL's regularly mix 1x2x2
windows (old scale) with 1x4x3's and 1xXxX's. Additionally, on the first
floor of my house, there are five different size windows (really, it
doesn't look that crazy). I mention this simply to observe that window
scale isn't particularly important.
[snip comments about the feasablility of multiple scales]
>
> What say yee?
>
> Gary Istok
So, I say, architectural stuff would be nice, but it would be a small
market inside and already small market, so that is a tough sales pitch
to make.
Two last observation... I would argue that four walls doesn't
necessarily mean architectural. I recently built a house that has four
walls and a removable roof and second floor. My son plays with it all
the time. In fact, I think the removable roof house is more playable
than a three wall house. It looks like 4886 is a removable roof house,
so the interior of that house could be customised substantially.
The one thing that makes me sad about 4886 is the roof. Why a red roof.
I have _plenty_ of red roofs. That said, I will be buying at least one
for my son, but I don't know... well, I don't think I'll be getting one
for myself... But we'll see.
Chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Lego Buildings with 4 Walls
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| (...) Yep, one of the Spiderman sets uses them - 4857. And it even has black panes for them. (...) I'm not going to dispute this, but I do wonder *why* that is. I doubt a 1x4x3 window has that much more ABS in it than a 2x4. The only thing I can (...) (20 years ago, 4-May-05, to lugnet.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Lego Buildings with 4 Walls
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| I was looking at the #4886 Designers set in the Lugnet set database yesterday. And there were a few things that troubled me about it. Not the design per se, but just the whole concept of going from a "minifig" environment (3 walls, juniorized parts, (...) (20 years ago, 1-May-05, to lugnet.general)
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