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John - thank you for your response to my posting. I'm sorry, of course,
that I had to break this news to you. At the same time it's nice to get a
response from someone else who thinks that this a valid concern (and not
simply racist, bigoted spewings as they've been branded by others). I
wonder if anyone will bother to "attack" you for your opinions and actions?
To answer your question about what I consider the dividing line between old
& new LEGO and the differences in quality: This is something that is not
based on any factual comparison of old/new bricks but rather on vague
memories from my childhood when I found it almost impossible to pull my
bricks apart sometimes (of course I was just a child). I went for 20+ years
without playing with LEGO and so my memories may be a little distorted. I
do know however, that with the current bricks if I build a wall of bricks I
can hold it up to the window and see light shining through all kinds of
cracks between the bricks. Also it may be that I'm just clumsier in my
middle age, but my models sure do seem to fall apart a lot more frequently
when I'm working on them. Maybe I'm just fantasizing but I didn't think that
was the way it used to be.
Back to the China topic - it will be interesting to see if there ever is any
fallout from LEGO shifting manufacturing to China. Of course, the problem
is now is that if they DON'T do it then everyone's going to know that
they're just a bunch of Northern European Bigots who Hate the Chinese.
Greg
In lugnet.general, John J. Ladasky, Jr. writes:
> In lugnet.general, Greg Perry writes:
> > I experienced two LEGO "firsts" a couple of weeks ago - I visited the local
> > Zany Brainy store for the first time to check out their LEGO selection and
> > while there I discovered the first sets that I had seen stamped with the
> > words I cringe at, "MADE IN CHINA".
>
> Oh no. Let me check my calendar. Please tell me it's April first... it's not.
>
> ARRRRGH! I'm tempted to write some words here that would violate my Lugnet
> Terms of Use agreement...
>
> > Before proceeding, let me say that I am not any kind of strident political
> > activist or anyone of any particular high morals or principles.
>
> Oh boy, I *am* politically active. I've been boycotting goods made in the
> Peoples' Republic of China since Tiananmen. Not that China has seemed to
> notice...
>
> > However,
> > avoiding items that are "MADE IN CHINA" is the one "protest" act that I
> > actively pursue. This is mainly due to the proddings of my much-more-aware
> > wife who's interests are more humanitarian and political. While I certainly
> > see the problems inherent in a society that forces it's population to work
> > under virtual "slave labor" conditions, for me the botton line is that
> > products made in China are inevitably cheap, inferior crap.
> >
> > And to me, that's not what LEGO toys and products should be about.
>
> The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I don't think that TLG will permit
> the quality of their parts to change. High-quality manufacturing is performed
> in many countries around the world, including the Peoples' Republic of China.
> People already complain about the lower quality of clone brands (I have
> first-hand experience with Mega Blocks -- I bought one set and found that only
> their standard rectangular bricks were acceptably made -- and they were
> manufactured in Canada, as I recall). If TLG doesn't keep up the quality, they
> will lose even more toy-store shelf space to the clone brands.
>
> I'm with your wife. My interests are humanitarian and political. All kinds of
> goods are manufactued in China. But there's something especially galling about
> having luxury items, like childrens' toys, being manufactured by people whose
> lives suck. I will not put a penny in the pocket of a government which proudly
> advertises its "right" to imprison and sometimes execute people for the crime
> of expressing their opinions.
>
> > The two DUPLO sets I found at Zany Brainy that were "MADE IN CHINA" are
> > http://guide.lugnet.com/set/3263 and http://guide.lugnet.com/set/3264.
> > These Tez and Google creatures are abominations in and of themselves but
> > that's a whole other rant that's been worked over many times in these forums.
> >
> > Obviously, these are not regular LEGO bricks and so perhaps that is the
> > hair-splitting justification TLC has for farming out the manufacturing to
> > China. It does make me wonder though if LEGO is making non-Brick/System
> > pieces in China how much longer will it be before they move ALL their
> > manufacturing there?
>
> For me, the fact that they're doing ANY manufacturing there at all is problem
> enough.
>
> > And what's that going to mean for the overall quality
> > of their products? (at this point I could launch into another old favorite
> > and start lamenting about the fact that newer bricks don't seem to connect
> > together as well as old ones do, etc.)
>
> Hmmm, I haven't noticed that. What's your break-point between "new" and "old"?
> My 100K-part collection dates back to 1975, and I have only ONE part that was
> manufactured out of tolerance (the big black SPUD from set 6110).
>
> > At this point I'll end with a couple of questions and comments for my fellow
> > LEGO-loving fans:
> >
> > - Does anyone know how prevalent LEGO's use of China based manufacturing is
> > at the moment? Anyone familiar with other TLC products made there? (I'm
> > guessing at least some of the LEGOLand souvenir stuff is made there). For
> > all I know LEGO may have been making things in China for years.
>
> Well, maybe their out-sourced stuff, like the souvenirs, as you mentioned, has
> been made in China for some time. I never gave these items much thought, as I
> have only been interested in bricks. Now I will be paying attention to this as
> well.
>
> > - Am I just being jingo-istic (and euro-centric) in thinking that if LEGO
> > products across the board begin to be made in China that there will be an
> > overall reduction in quality?
>
> I think that this will be the least of our worries.
>
> I also wouldn't worry about your concerns about China being Eurocentric or
> jingoistic. My wife is Chinese, and she supports the China boycott. One of
> the strongest advocates of the China boycott is former PRC citizen Harry Wu.
>
> Consider how you would have felt is TLG announced that it was manufacturing in
> Serbia, prior to the handover of Milosevic to the UN Tribunal. Wouldn't that
> have left a bad taste in your mouth, too?
>
> Would it have bothered you in the least if you discovered that Lego was now
> being made in Japan?
>
> There, this has nothing to do with Europeans vs. non-Europeans.
>
> > - Does anyone think LEGO is the kind of company that would NOT move to China
> > if people raised a stink about it?
>
> TLG likes to talk about its "values." Manufacturing in People's Republic of
> China is, in my view, incompatible with the kinder, gentler world of play that
> TLG likes to promote.
>
> > Or do you think that they'll just be
> > more concerned with the bottom line - especially considering their earnings
> > reports from the last couple of years?
>
> TLG announced the closure of the manufacturing facility in Enfield,
> Connecticut. TLG announced the opening of a new manufacturing facility in
> Eastern Europe -- Slovakia, I think? But TLG has apparently started
> manufacturing in China without a press release. This is not encouraging. It
> appears to me that they tried to keep this information from the consumer as
> long as possible, knowing that some of us would be offended.
>
> > Anyway, I've been wanting to vent my mild frustration and dismay at
> > discovering LEGO products were now being MADE IN CHINA.
>
> My frustration and dismay are hardly mild. I have a few more Brickbay orders
> to fill, and then I'm done buying Lego! I will have hundreds of extra dollars
> in my pocket next year. It's time for me to rediscover my music hobby...
>
> > Wouldn't surprise
> > me to find out that no one else gives a brick but hey, that's the great
> > thing about the Internet - any crackpot can moan, grumble and whine about
> > any old thing they want. But where there's one crank there's usually at
> > least one more...
> >
> > So there's my BotW.
> >
> > Greg
>
> Almost three years ago, I rediscovered Lego with my three year-old son. He
> loves them. When I contemplated adding to our collection, the FIRST thing I
> checked was to see where Lego was being built in this day and age. I was
> pleasantly surprised to see same names I saw when I was a kid: the U.S.,
> Switzerland, and Germany. While I am a tireless critic, and that includes
> criticism of the American political system, all three of these countries show
> at least a modicum of respect for their people. Even though Lego was
> EXPENSIVE, I opened my wallet, again and again.
>
> I guess that we have enough Lego now.
>
> It's time for a new acronym in the Lego community. I am now an AFOOL -- an
> Adult Fan of OLD Lego.
>
> Remember how crazy TLG became over the European artist who built Lego
> concentration camp scenes? I'm going to look into building a Tiananmen Square
> massacre scene for my next MOC.
>
> It took a decade of pressure to change South Africa. How long will it take to
> change China?
>
> --
> John J. Ladasky Jr., Ph.D.
> Department of Biology
> Johns Hopkins University
> Baltimore, MD 21218
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