Subject:
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Re: Description of MLCad extensions available now
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw
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Date:
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Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:01:20 GMT
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Viewed:
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319 times
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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Don Heyse writes:
> Let me just say before I get started here that I think Michael has
> made a terrific contribution to this community with MLCAD. I just
> think he's a bit confused about the ramifications of his license
> agreement and I hope we can clear it up.
>
> In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Michael Lachmann writes:
> > May I say you got that wrong?
> >
> > The license is ment for developers going to implement the command into
> > theire own programs. Then I would like to have some notice from where the
> > commands originally came from.
>
> I think I got it right. Michael, you're not asking for much, I agree.
> But you're not really asking, are you. You're demanding it, and
> threatening legal action if your demands are not met. I quote:
>
> 2. LIZENCE AGREEMENT
>
> The commands described in this document are special extensions to the
> Ldraw command syntax. Other developers may include the same
> functionality in their developments to be compatible to MLCAD.
>
> When implementing one or more of these commands the developer must
> clearly state the implemented commands, in a documentation available
> to the end user. Also a reference to this document which can be found
> on the following web site (http://www.lm-software.com/mlcad) has to
> appear in that documentation.
>
> This specification document must not be provided to third parties on
> any other location on any other location than the web site mentioned
> above neither electronically nor on paper, without written acceptance
> from the author of this document.
>
> Down the side of the document it states:
>
> The reproduction OR USE OF THIS DOCUMENT OR IT'S CONTENTS is not
> permitted without prior written authority of Ing. Michael Lachman.
> OFFENDERS WILL BE LIABLE FOR DAMAGES.
>
> The emphasis is mine. However, to me that sounds like a threat of
> legal action if I even USE the specs without written permission. While
> this may be appropriate for a company, I don't think it's appropriate
> for this community. Look at the ldlite extension specs.
>
> http://ldlite.sourceforge.net/
>
> They're used by quite a few programs now, including MLCAD. While most of
> these programs point this out somewhere in their documentation, it's not
> REQUIRED by law. That's the community spirit we've had up until now.
> Let's keep it that way. How about we keep this a community and let all
> the specs (including extensions) reside at the community site: ldraw.org.
> This way ldraw.org can mention where the extensions come from (and even
> provide a link), but you need not search all over the net to discover the
> meaning of the words in your .LDR file.
>
> > I never sayed or wrote that you have to note something when you use the
> > commands in models or parts (even if this would be wise to do, since people
> > might not know what type of commands these are, so a notice telling what it
> > is would not be bad anyway).
>
> Do a google search for "ldlite meta command". Everyone including yourself
> seems to mention those particular commands originated with ldlite. Yet
> no license agreement was in force. How about a little trust? If you
> want, make a request instead of a demand and a threat. I think you'll
> find your request is honored.
>
> > The other end is that you might have recogniced that I have been founding a
> > company on my own. And I am still providing MLCad for free, but some
> > regulations have to be done, to protect myself. And from a company you never
> > will get something without a license agreement.
>
> I'm not sure what you're protecting yourself from with this license
> agreement. We all have day jobs, but so far no one has seen the need
> a license agreement on any of the other specs. How about changing
> "LIZENSE AGREEMENT" to "Copyright Notice" and removing the threats and
> demands. Think about using "should" instead of "must" for instance.
>
> > I believe my license agreement on the MLCad command extensions for
> > developers is not the worst thing here, I just like to mention the
> > regulations regarding the part library, which still prevent that
> > software is bundled with it. Thats bad!
>
> Perhaps, but why then do you wish to add another licensing problem to the
> mess we already have. What happens if you pass away from a sudden illness
> and your site with the documentation disappears? Nobody is legally allowed
> to post it anywhere else. It's not like that never happens...
>
> Have Fun (because that's what we're here for)
>
> Don
>
> Followups set to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw because I think that's where
> license discussions on the .LDR file format belong.
>
> > "Don Heyse" <dheyse@hotmail.spam.go.away.com> wrote in message
> > news:Gz3rvD.1Lr@lugnet.com...
> > > In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Michael Lachmann writes:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > all people interested into the ldraw format extensions of MLCad may • follow
> > > > this link to download the spec in pdf format. There is no other link for • now
> > > > to this document then that one here, but this will follow next.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.lm-software.com/mlcad/Extensions.pdf
> > > >
> > > > happy reading and programming,
> > > > Michael
> > >
> > > I'm actually somewhat UNhappy right now. Maybe I'm a bit of a nut, but
> > > are these the first ldraw extensions that come with a lizence agreement?
> > > I admit the requirements in the agreement are probably a good procedure
> > > to follow, but why do they need to be enforced by a license agreement?
> > >
> > > What if all the part authors made similar demands? I know I've only made
> > > a few parts and primitives, but they're all unencumbered by such demands.
> > > I'm almost inclined to say that they can no longer be used by any software
> > > but mine without written permission. (I'd never do that, but I hope you
> > > get the idea.)
> > >
> > > Copyright the program if you must. Copywright the documentation if you
> > > want. Just don't copyright the language used by my data (the model) even
> > > if it's produced by your program. That makes me angry.
> > >
> > > Don
I'm 1000% confused and really hate to admit it. I downloaded and read the
extensions file but have NO CLUE what it's for? Can someone please let me
what the extensions are for?
Also Michael's approach with the license agreement is *NOT* bad perhaps a
bit strong in the language he used. Two things come to mind. 1) In his
(michael's) translation from (his native language) to english did he perhaps
use a *bad choice* of words to express what he wanted to say and 2) remember
that MLCAD just like LDRAW (DOS applications and ORGINAL parts library) are
freeware BUT NOT IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN! As such both should and DO HAVE
license agreements to them. I know most of you don't read them (I've been
looking and editing several for the Ldraw communiuty lately since working on
the installers again) and within the licesenes it states this fact: FREEWARE
NOT IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, so while the programs are used by the community
they ARE NOT the communities! LDraw still belongs to the Jessiman's estate,
MLCAD is Michael's, and all the parts (except the original) belong to the
part authors (as of now).
-AHui
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