Subject:
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Re: i admit i was wrong
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:48:27 GMT
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Reply-To:
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johnneal@uswest(AvoidSpam).net
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Viewed:
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19 times
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Tom McDonald wrote:
> In lugnet.cad.dev, Todd Lehman writes:
> > In lugnet.cad.dev, lehman@javanet.com (Todd Lehman) writes:
> > > [...]
> > > In lugnet.admin.general, "Selçuk <teyyareci>" <sgore@nospam.superonline.com>
> > > writes:
> > > > Smelling bad and looking bad are not the same things. If someone smells • bad,
> > > > you sure want him/her to go out and never come back without taking a bath,
> > > > since you can't make all the other people squeeze their noses. But if
> > > > somebody has a harmless but stupid and irritating clothes, just looking at
> > > > the other side is the way to go.
> > >
> > > That's a nice analogy, but it doesn't apply. The situation here is more
> > > like someone has walked into a room where things are trying to get done, and
> > > they sit there and muck things up -- asking annoying questions all the time,
> > > treating people rudely, and making ridiculous demands.
> > > [...]
> >
> > OK, here's the analogy.
>
> [...]
>
> Very nice analogy. This is how restaurants, neighborhoods, dance/night clubs
> et. al. of all kinds start losing patronage and favor. It all starts with
> "I'll do what I want in here", which BTW can include the attitude of the
> management. I don't see this with Lugnet's management, but it's prevelant on
> RTL. The environment degrades from the ideal and people leave. The place
> eventually becomes a dive, or mediocre at best.
>
> This place is too good to lose. And while I don't contribute how to build
> super-complicated things like Mindstorms stuff or Supercar gearing, I don't
> want any Lugnet group to be run by Lego newbies, unless it's a group called
> lugnet.newbies, and even then newbies shouldn't be in charge there. While I
> read a few things and learn, I don't post stuff unless I know I can contribute
> in a quality way, hopefully leaving the group better than I found it.
>
> As far as the cad.dev group situation goes (or even cad.* for that matter)
> I've largely stayed away from posting and am waiting for the dust to clear
> either way. I've been asked why I haven't participated in this discussion.
> This is because I haven't been asked to do so and also because I rarely visit
> the cad.* groups, I feel I'm not informed enough. But because Todd has asked
> in this group, I will say that the current flap has kept me from becoming any
> more involved in cad.*, and currently, I wouldn't recommend the group to
> someone new.
>
> [...]
>
> > In fact, fewer visitors have begun to stop by the ninth floor lately because
> > of all the stick figures. Somehow, the stick figures just don't have the
> > same appeal as the masterpieces. What's worse, some of the masters
> > themselves have begun to show up less frequently, and some have even begun
> > not to show up at all. They just can't bear the thought of someone drawing
> > stick figures all over the place. The person drawing the stick figures was
> > even overheard once berating a master for taking his jolly old time on a
> > masterpiece. How absurd.
>
> I have to admit I visit less now.
>
> > The people who frequent the ninth floor have talked to the stick-figure
> > artist many, many times about quality, attitude, love of the figure, and
> > devotion to the craft. They've even offered helpful hints and constructive
> > feedback many times, but and while it seems to help a little, it just
> > doesn't seem to help enough. Sometimes the stick figures do end up with a
> > little flesh on them, but most of the time they just end up with two heads,
> > an especially short arm, or extra toes.
> >
> > Is there any solution to this problem?
>
> Yes, actually there is. I hear that some of the masters actually discuss their
> techniques and their sage advice, as well as advanced techniques from time to
> time, and all who want to absorb that knowledge can do so. They give
> instructions on etiquette too. The fact is anyone is welcome to lurk and learn
> anywhere in the building they want. It's too bad though that the art of
> lurking and learning isn't practiced more.
>
> > Obviously, everyone could simply ignore all the stick-figures and the
> > stick-figure artist. How reasonable is that? Some of the masters have
> > decided that they can't ignore it, and that they're happier just leaving.
>
> Yup. Back to that patronage thing I mentioned above.
>
> > Or, everyone could get together and pose an ultimatum to the stick-figure
> > artist, asking him to knock it off -- to pursue a different field, or to
> > somehow magically improve straight to the master level overnight.
>
> Even young Kane on "Kung Fu" couldn't do that.
>
> > Or, everyone could get together ask the building manager to request the key
> > back to the rooms on the ninth floor. Since all of the rooms in the
> > building are glass, taking away a key to a room doesn't mean that someone
> > still can't watch what goes on in the room and learn from watching; it just
> > means that someone simply can no longer go in to a room and jump around and
> > make a fuss or mess things up. They're left to sit on the outside looking
> > in, so that the masters can get back to focusing on what they do best and
> > enjoy most: creating works of art, unfettered by the frustration of working
> > with a stick-figure artist in the room.
> >
> > This is how I see it.
>
> Should apprentices be required to clean the windows to foster a love of the
> place? Maybe some other chore?
Wax on, wax off. <sorry>
> -Tom McD.
> when replying, when you can take the spamcake from my hand, it will be time
> for you to leave.
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: i admit i was wrong
|
| (...) bad, (...) [...] Very nice analogy. This is how restaurants, neighborhoods, dance/night clubs et. al. of all kinds start losing patronage and favor. It all starts with "I'll do what I want in here", which BTW can include the attitude of the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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