| | | | |
In lugnet.trains, Reinhard Ben Beneke wrote:
Ben, with your rig, how does the 8866 PF Train motor compare with the 10153
motor, for various masses of loco (say no-load, kids train load and AFOL train
load)?
Ive tested the Emerald Night carriage with an 8866 motor and found that the
gearing was too high to go with a medium motor in the cab (substituted for the
usual XL motor in an attempt to get more speed, though it didnt work).
Then I ran just the carriage with two 8866 motors, including the battery and
receiver. On flexi-track, speed settings less than 3 wouldnt move it, speed 3
was OK and speed more than 3 derailed :-(
Then I compared pairs of 10153 and 8866 motors in a heavier 8x64 carriage, using
the PF rechargeable battery and IR receiver to control it. I found that with
10153 motors speed setting 4 was good to go all the way round my looped-eight
layout (with 1 in 30 maximum slope, up and down) (meaning that it was good to
leave it running at a show so I can talk to the public) but that speed setting 5
was needed to get the 8866 motors up the slope and was too fast for the descent
(meaning I couldnt leave it running at a show).
Pulling another two 8x64 carriages, speed setting 4 was still good for the 10153
motors but with 8866 motors even top speed struggled on the up hill section,
cutting out the rechargeable battery 3 times, though it got there eventually.
It also caused overspeed on the descent and derailed!
Have you or others found the 8866 motor over-gearing problem?
Its quite serious if the motor designed for the job is not right. The future
of PF trains could be at risk. I would like to recommend a redesign with lower
gearing to TLG. The 8866 motor should be made to follow the torque curve of the
10153 9V train motor, so that it is a drop-in replacement.
Mark
========================================================================
Mark J E Bellis 8mm Scale LEGO Trains
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=mbellis
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
| In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> Ben, with your rig, how does the 8866 PF Train motor compare with the 10153
> motor, for various masses of loco (say no-load, kids' train load and AFOL
> train load)?
Mark,
sorriely I have broken down the small rig after the test series, so I have no
quick access to a wider testing procedure.....
> I've tested the Emerald Night carriage with an 8866 motor and found that the
> gearing was too high to go with a medium motor in the cab (substituted for
> the usual XL motor in an attempt to get more speed, though it didn't work).
The speed of the Emerald is clearly much lower in comparison to 8866. If you run
8866 at a reduced speed to go with the Emerald, the torque (or pulling power) of
8866 at that speed is insufficient. Sad for us AFOLs, but a matter of fact.
> Then I ran just the carriage with two 8866 motors, including the battery and
> receiver. On flexi-track, speed settings less than 3 wouldn't move it, speed
> 3 was OK and speed more than 3 derailed :-(
8866 is definitely designed for kids and if I remember it right, overspeeding
and derailing was number one factor for play fun when I was a kid. So I
understand, why LEGO designers did it like this to have an appealing product for
kids. Kids usually do not want to have the train running and giving an interview
at same time...
> Then I compared pairs of 10153 and 8866 motors in a heavier 8x64 carriage,
> using the PF rechargeable battery and IR receiver to control it. I found
> that with 10153 motors speed setting 4 was good to go all the way round my
> looped-eight layout (with 1 in 30 maximum slope, up and down) (meaning that
> it was good to leave it running at a show so I can talk to the public) but
> that speed setting 5 was needed to get the 8866 motors up the slope and was
> too fast for the descent (meaning I couldn't leave it running at a show).
I have never really played with 8866 before I bought 7898 two weeks ago....
Since this system runs out, I wanted to have just one for reference purpose
basically. I never had the intention to use battery stuff at shows or at home on
any track layout.
> Pulling another two 8x64 carriages, speed setting 4 was still good for the
> 10153 motors but with 8866 motors even top speed struggled on the up hill
> section, cutting out the rechargeable battery 3 times, though it got there
> eventually. It also caused overspeed on the descent and derailed!
Not good....
> It's quite serious if the motor designed for the job is not right.
Train clubs have definitely never been a focus for LEGO. Especially the 8866 is
a kids play thing. Cheap rubbish with no professional approach (as far as I see
it).
> The
> future of PF trains could be at risk. I would like to recommend a redesign
> with lower gearing to TLG. The 8866 motor should be made to follow the
> torque curve of the 10153 9V train motor, so that it is a drop-in
> replacement.
Of course that would be favourable. I think the way to go is to use the "real"
Power Functions items (XXL and medium motor - a micro motor on my wish list).
Those can be geared down to any speed we would like to see.
I myself am happy with a stock of some 60+ 10153 motors and over 100 meters of
9V track. After the demise of 9V trains I can not use these to promote 9V
products to potential new customers. This is bad luck for the LEGO copmpany -
not so much for me.
For my hobby I can accept, that I am a fan of a "dead" system. At least the
Emerald with XXL motor offers a nice add-on to the existing (but now no longer
supported) systems. So I am fine without taking any notice of the 8866 motor,
which offers nothing to me....
Ben
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.trains, Reinhard Ben Beneke wrote:
|
8866 is definitely designed for kids and if I remember it right, overspeeding
and derailing was number one factor for play fun when I was a kid. So I
understand, why LEGO designers did it like this to have an appealing product
for kids. Kids usually do not want to have the train running and giving an
interview at same time...
|
...
|
I myself am happy with a stock of some 60+ 10153 motors and over 100 meters of
9V track. After the demise of 9V trains I can not use these to promote 9V
products to potential new customers. This is bad luck for the LEGO copmpany -
not so much for me.
For my hobby I can accept, that I am a fan of a dead system. At least the
Emerald with XXL motor offers a nice add-on to the existing (but now no longer
supported) systems. So I am fine without taking any notice of the 8866 motor,
which offers nothing to me....
|
This is an interesting discussion. Keep in mind that the 9v system was also
designed for kids, which is why the motors have so little pulling power.
Like you, Ive looked at the 8866 and figured it would be of little use to me.
But I figured there might be some niche somewhere that it could fill.
I recently saw Ben Fleskes GS4 (aka 4449) powered by three of these
(here (scroll down), and
here).
Which struck me as a good use of the 8866.
One big advantage I see in the battery train is, if my understanding is correct,
that it offers three additional channels of train control that do not conflict
with the 4 pf channels. And a second advantage is that with the black baseplate
in the battery train, you might have a better chance of hiding the battery in a
4 wide (or nearly 4 wide) hood. That said, like you, Im probably only going to
dabble in PF trains with most of my stock remaining 9v.
Id love some third party to make a good 9v power pickup for PF (though I dont
know if Id want to spend much over $10 for it).
Benn
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.trains, Benn Coifman wrote:
|
Id love some third party to make a good 9v power pickup for PF (though I
dont know if Id want to spend much over $10 for it).
|
Hey, Benn-
Ill tell you what Id like to see-- some third party coming in and dropping in
beefier motors in the existing train motor. That would be cool.
Come to think of it, didnt somebody actually try that? Ive heard from those in
the know that it is definitely possible.
JOHN
| | | | | | |