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You could just make a war2 TC like they did with myth... Its not hard at all.
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In lugnet.castle, Pearson Castner writes:
> You could just make a war2 TC like they did with myth... Its not hard at all.
It's always easier when you are simply copying something else rather than
creating something original, but as to making a good computer game not being
hard at all...
Bruce
(trying very hard not to stop laughing) :-)
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In lugnet.castle, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> (trying very hard not to stop laughing)
Hmmmm, this would doom me forever. Just kinda ignore the "not". :-)
Bruce
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The way this works is a creative company invents a gaming engine and several
others copy it. Classic example Wolfenstein/Doom invented by Idg. These guys
invented the 3D shooter engine that was copied by many others. Once software
engine is created, it is simple to adjust the graphics, maps and weapons to
suit your theme. The same is true with Warcraft. Blizzard invented the
engine (technically Dune invented it, Blizzard just perfected it), and many
others copied it (command and conquer, Age of Empires, etc.). So for TLG to
produce the game would require the expense of licencing the engine, and the
work to adjust the game specifics (graphics, characters, maps, etc.)
I know this is a very simple explanation for a very involved process but my
point is that this would be easier than you might think.
Scott
In lugnet.castle, Pearson Castner writes:
> You could just make a war2 TC like they did with myth... Its not hard at all.
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In lugnet.castle, Scott P. Costello writes:
> The way this works is a creative company invents a gaming engine and several
> others copy it. Classic example Wolfenstein/Doom invented by Idg.
Wolfenstein was created by....ummmmm....dang....that was so long ago even I
forget. I mean the ORIGINAL Castle Wolfenstein (Apple ][). Top down
graphics, not first person. But yes, the engine by IDG has been copied many
times.
These guys
> invented the 3D shooter engine that was copied by many others. Once software
> engine is created, it is simple to adjust the graphics, maps and weapons to
> suit your theme. The same is true with Warcraft. Blizzard invented the
> engine (technically Dune invented it, Blizzard just perfected it), and many
> others copied it (command and conquer, Age of Empires, etc.).
Command & Conquer was by the people who created Dune, they just sanded off the
serial numbers to avoid royalties. :-)
So for TLG to
> produce the game would require the expense of licencing the engine, and the
> work to adjust the game specifics (graphics, characters, maps, etc.)
Licensing of engines is extremely rare - why make it easier for someone to
compete with your product? It was usually done to in the past simply to avoid
lawsuits on similiar products.
>
> I know this is a very simple explanation for a very involved process but my
> point is that this would be easier than you might think.
Idunno, I've worked on a lot of computer games in my time - nothing is ever
easy.
>
> Scott
>
> In lugnet.castle, Pearson Castner writes:
> > You could just make a war2 TC like they did with myth... Its not hard at all.
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Scott P. Costello writes:
> > The way this works is a creative company invents a gaming engine and several
> > others copy it. Classic example Wolfenstein/Doom invented by Idg.
>
> Wolfenstein was created by....ummmmm....dang....that was so long ago even I
> forget. I mean the ORIGINAL Castle Wolfenstein (Apple ][). Top down
> graphics, not first person. But yes, the engine by IDG has been copied many
> times.
yah yah! I remember copying it (shhh, i was young) sector by sector, since my
poor apple][+'s 48k memory couldn't do more than that... :)
yay locksmith *grin*
:)
Dan
PS. Hope my age isn't showing ;)
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In lugnet.castle, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Scott P. Costello writes:
> > The way this works is a creative company invents a gaming engine and several
> > others copy it. Classic example Wolfenstein/Doom invented by Idg.
>
> Wolfenstein was created by....ummmmm....dang....that was so long ago even I
> forget. I mean the ORIGINAL Castle Wolfenstein (Apple ][). Top down
> graphics, not first person. But yes, the engine by IDG has been copied many
> times.
Castle Wolfenstein was created by Silas S. Warner in 1981 for Muse Software.
Muse later created Beyond Castle Wolfenstein in 1984.
> So for TLG to
> > produce the game would require the expense of licencing the engine, and the
> > work to adjust the game specifics (graphics, characters, maps, etc.)
>
> Licensing of engines is extremely rare - why make it easier for someone to
> compete with your product? It was usually done to in the past simply to avoid
> lawsuits on similiar products.
Actually, the licensing of engines is very common! Why make it easier for
someone to compete with your product? For the big wad of money you get in
return! The Quake 2 engine has been used for Kingpin, Daikatana, and some
little game called Half Life. Countless developers have signed up to use the
Quake 3 engine. The Unreal engine alone has been licensed for use with Duke
Nukem Forever, Deus Ex, The Wheel of Time, Klingon Honor Guard, X-Com Alliance,
Werewolf the Apocalypse, TNN Outdoors Pro Hunter, Navy Seals, a sequel to Abe's
Oddworld, Hired Guns, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Aeon Flux! Those are
just the ones that have been publicly announced (I know for a fact that there
are more).
> > I know this is a very simple explanation for a very involved process but my
> > point is that this would be easier than you might think.
>
> Idunno, I've worked on a lot of computer games in my time - nothing is ever
> easy.
Truer words were never said, but it's a wonderful feeling when your work comes
together and you wind up with something that is truly fun to play and
enjoyable.
Tony
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In lugnet.castle, Tony A. Rowe writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Scott P. Costello writes:
> > > The way this works is a creative company invents a gaming engine and several
> > > others copy it. Classic example Wolfenstein/Doom invented by Idg.
> >
> > Wolfenstein was created by....ummmmm....dang....that was so long ago even I
> > forget. I mean the ORIGINAL Castle Wolfenstein (Apple ][). Top down
> > graphics, not first person. But yes, the engine by IDG has been copied many
> > times.
>
> Castle Wolfenstein was created by Silas S. Warner in 1981 for Muse Software.
> Muse later created Beyond Castle Wolfenstein in 1984.
Ahhhh, my brain kept trying to come up with something starting with an S and I
kept drawing blanks on the company name. Going down the wrong path.
> > So for TLG to
> > > produce the game would require the expense of licencing the engine, and the
> > > work to adjust the game specifics (graphics, characters, maps, etc.)
> >
> > Licensing of engines is extremely rare - why make it easier for someone to
> > compete with your product? It was usually done to in the past simply to • avoid
> > lawsuits on similiar products.
>
> Actually, the licensing of engines is very common! Why make it easier for
> someone to compete with your product? For the big wad of money you get in
> return! The Quake 2 engine has been used for Kingpin, Daikatana, and some
> little game called Half Life. Countless developers have signed up to use the
> Quake 3 engine. The Unreal engine alone has been licensed for use with Duke
> Nukem Forever, Deus Ex, The Wheel of Time, Klingon Honor Guard, X-Com • Alliance,
> Werewolf the Apocalypse, TNN Outdoors Pro Hunter, Navy Seals, a sequel to • Abe's
> Oddworld, Hired Guns, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Aeon Flux! Those are
> just the ones that have been publicly announced (I know for a fact that there
> are more).
I stand corrected - for one particular product, it would seem. :-)
But then, I haven't paid as close attention the last few years, so things may
well have changed.
>
> > > I know this is a very simple explanation for a very involved process but my
> > > point is that this would be easier than you might think.
> >
> > Idunno, I've worked on a lot of computer games in my time - nothing is ever
> > easy.
>
> Truer words were never said, but it's a wonderful feeling when your work comes
> together and you wind up with something that is truly fun to play and
> enjoyable.
>
> Tony
Enjoy it while you can - while people are still playing Monopoly, computer
games are like sand castles, they get washed away with the tides of time and
technology very quickly. :-(
Thanks for the comments and corrections!
Bruce
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[directed to lugnet.off-topic.fun, 'cause this has nothing to do with LEGO]
In lugnet.dear-lego, Tony Rowe wrote:
> Actually, the licensing of engines is very common! Why make it easier for
> someone to compete with your product? For the big wad of money you get in
> return! The Quake 2 engine has been used for Kingpin, Daikatana, and some
> little game called Half Life. Countless developers have signed up to use the
> Quake 3 engine. The Unreal engine alone has been licensed for use with Duke
> Nukem Forever, Deus Ex, The Wheel of Time, Klingon Honor Guard, X-Com Alliance,
> Werewolf the Apocalypse, TNN Outdoors Pro Hunter, Navy Seals, a sequel to Abe's
> Oddworld, Hired Guns, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Aeon Flux! Those are
> just the ones that have been publicly announced (I know for a fact that there
> are more).
Heck, I got the distinct impression that Unreal The Engine was developed
specifically for licensing, and Unreal The Game was made to show off the engine.
Steve
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In lugnet.castle, Scott P. Costello writes:
> The way this works is a creative company invents a gaming engine and several
> others copy it. Classic example Wolfenstein/Doom invented by Idg. These guys
> invented the 3D shooter engine that was copied by many others. Once software
> engine is created, it is simple to adjust the graphics, maps and weapons to
> suit your theme.
This is partly true, but I would like to clear up some of your nomenclature.
You could say that Id created the First Person Shooter (FPS) genre of games
when they created Wolfenstein 3D.
This is different from an engine, as an engine is a computer program (or group
of programs) that handle all the low-level stuff that a video game does, such
as handling player input (from keyboard, mouse, joystick, whatever),
calculating if some object has collided with some other object, displaying
images to the screen, tracking player and enemy stats, and so on.
An engine has to have data to get the look of the game that is wanted. Data
is textures (pictures and images, used for floors, ceilings, walls, computer
consoles, water, skins, weapons, the sky, etc...), meshes (3D models of
enemies, weapons, trees, etc., if the game is truly 3D (like Quake)), sprites
(2D models of stuff if a game is not truly 3D (like Doom or Warcraft)), and
other stuff like stats (weapon ranges, enemy hit points, lighting
information, etc.) and maps (the layout of a game level).
A single engine can be used with different data to make several different (but
usually similar) games. Both Klingon Honor Guard and Wheel of Time use the
same engine as the game Unreal. The three games are similar in controls and
general gameplay, but each game is distinct and different. The three games all
use different data.
As another example, my company developed a new game engine when they created
The Lost World for PlayStation. The engine was able to "fake" 3D pretty well,
but our engineers continued to work on it and refine it. The same engine
(though much improved) was used for Small Soldiers and T'ai Fu, both very
different games from Lost World (both were true 3D... Small Soldiers was
somewhat like Tomb Raider or MDK and T'ai Fu was somewhat like Super Mario 64
(with a fixed camera)). That same engine was even further refined to create a
First Person Shooter, Medal of Honor.
So as you see, a single engine can even be used to make games from several
different genres. I've worked with the Unreal engine enough to know that it is
very flexible and can be used to create games of many different genres. It
doesn't seem that anyone has bothered to do so, sticking with the current
popularity of the FPS.
> I know this is a very simple explanation for a very involved process but my
> point is that this would be easier than you might think.
>
> Scott
And now you have a complex explanation as well! I hope this information
helps clear things up for everyone.
Tony
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