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hi folks,
we are seeking a helping hand to define the color scheme of this part:
http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/3754p90.dat
there has already been a discussion with orion and steve through e-mail, but
it
led to no end. the most critical point is the white-bluish color 505:
up to now we have two samples of this part:
and we are seeking some more (as well as your opinion) to find out if this 505
should be 505, as orion has put it “distinctly white with no blue” or
if I
should use a different white with a shade of blue?
thx, w.
www.holly-wood.it
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I don’t have the part, but the photos posted make it look to me like the blue
from the part is slightly visible through the paint. So the paint in the areas
in question doesn’t contain any blue.
Having said that, the two red circles highlighted in the bottom photo make it
appear that the regions modeled in light blue are actually very light gray, and
not quite white, since the circles highlight contrast with actual white.
Just my 2 cents.
--Travis Cobbs
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Travis Cobbs wrote:
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I don’t have the part, but the photos posted make it look to me like the blue
from the part is slightly visible through the paint. So the paint in the
areas in question doesn’t contain any blue.
Having said that, the two red circles highlighted in the bottom photo make it
appear that the regions modeled in light blue are actually very light gray,
and not quite white, since the circles highlight contrast with actual white.
Just my 2 cents.
|
I have the part, so I’ve been holding off commenting until I can look
at it. But I lack patience, so... In my mind, I remember the part as
having shades of white and grey on the questionable bits. Therefore
the light blue just plain looks wrong to me. I do have the Tigura
beast in front of me and it’s clearly printed with a large patch of
white with a bit of the orange bleeding through from the plastic
underneath. I’d model that as white, not light orange.
My guess is the extreme white you see in the picture is the same
printing as the “blue-white”. It’s just brighter there because it
overlaps the earlier grey printing pass. This misregistering of the
printing passes will look different on every part and should not be
represented in the model.
My 1 cent, for now...
Don
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Don Heyse wrote:
> In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Travis Cobbs wrote:
> > I don't have the part, but the photos posted make it look to me like the
> > blue from the part is slightly visible through the paint. So the paint in
> > the areas in question doesn't contain any blue.
> >
> > Having said that, the two red circles highlighted in the bottom photo make
> > it appear that the regions modeled in light blue are actually very light
> > gray, and not quite white, since the circles highlight contrast with actual
> > white.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
>
> I have the part, so I've been holding off commenting until I can look
> at it. But I lack patience, so... In my mind, I remember the part as
> having shades of white and grey on the questionable bits. Therefore
> the light blue just plain looks wrong to me. I do have the Tigura
> beast in front of me and it's clearly printed with a large patch of
> white with a bit of the orange bleeding through from the plastic
> underneath. I'd model that as white, not light orange.
>
> My guess is the extreme white you see in the picture is the same
> printing as the "blue-white". It's just brighter there because it
> overlaps the earlier grey printing pass. This misregistering of the
> printing passes will look different on every part and should not be
> represented in the model.
>
> My 1 cent, for now...
I haven't found the part yet, but I've found the sister spacewalk
brick and examined it. If you flip the brick over you can clearly
see that it's not quite smooth. Compare it to a smooth brick and
you'll see what I mean. This was probably done to hold the paint
down. So what you're seeing as light blue is just the texture showing
a bit through the white paint. It shows less where the white is
printed on top of the light grey because the grey paint is lighter
and fills in the texture like a primer. On the sister brick I can
see some spots where the white overlaps the dark blue paint and forms
yet another blury shade of blue. Don't go there. It's white and
dark blue and that's it. Here's a scan. Look at the bottom right.
http://ldglite.sourceforge.net/spacewalk_lego.jpg
Anyhow, hold the brick at arm's length. It registers as white. Look
at the instruction scans at brickshelf. They printed it as white.
There is no light blue. It's just an illusion. :-)
Another issue is the blue (1) color. I'm undecided on this one because
it's really just the background color, but it'd look silly if someone
used this pattern on for example a red brick. I guess I'd go with
blue instead of 16 because it makes no difference for official lego
bricks, and it makes the pattern more fun for people who play with
LDRAW. The spacewalk brick doesn't have this problem, by the way.
Have fun,
Don
I've posted a modified MPD file to show what I'd like to see.
http://ldglite.sourceforge.net/ssuit.dat
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Don Heyse wrote:
> In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Travis Cobbs wrote:
> > I don't have the part, but the photos posted make it look to me like the
> > blue from the part is slightly visible through the paint. So the paint in
> > the areas in question doesn't contain any blue.
> >
> > Having said that, the two red circles highlighted in the bottom photo make
> > it appear that the regions modeled in light blue are actually very light
> > gray, and not quite white, since the circles highlight contrast with actual
> > white.
hm ... this is in tune with steve (initially I used light blue 9):
"Yes, I think it would work better to use color 503 (light gray from
Mosaic) instead of light blue. If those zones are really a vary light
shade of blue, you could try 505 (white/lt blue) or 370 (gray/lt blue).
But I suspect 503 will work better."
I picked 505 after doing some tests with all three colors.
> I have the part, so I've been holding off commenting until I can look
> at it. But I lack patience, so... In my mind, I remember the part as
> having shades of white and grey on the questionable bits. Therefore
> the light blue just plain looks wrong to me. I do have the Tigura
> beast in front of me and it's clearly printed with a large patch of
> white with a bit of the orange bleeding through from the plastic
> underneath. I'd model that as white, not light orange.
>
> My guess is the extreme white you see in the picture is the same
> printing as the "blue-white". It's just brighter there because it
> overlaps the earlier grey printing pass. This misregistering of the
> printing passes will look different on every part and should not be
> represented in the model.
I disagree on the overlap. if this is really a misregistering of the
printing passes the white border would have the same size in all areas, while
the white line on the rocket is much wider than the one on the helmet or the
craters. before I started designing the part I also considered this being an
overlap (it would have saved a lot of time an effort just declare it as an
error) but IMO there ARE white borders around the craters, minifig and the
rest.
I remember having a second version of this part I couldn't use as a basis for
the re-engeneering because of its REAL overlap. I'll post a scan if I find it.
my 0.02 euro,
w.
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Willy Tschager wrote:
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up to now we have two samples of this part:
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Ok, which looks “right”? This:
or this:
C’mon. It’s classic space, not Power Rangers (or Knights Kingdom).
There are no light blue spacemen or spaceships in classic space.
The moon is not made of bleu cheese. Look with the eyes of a 10
year old and tell me it’s not supposed to be white.
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I have the part, so I’ve been holding off commenting until I can look
at it. But I lack patience, so... In my mind, I remember the part as
having shades of white and grey on the questionable bits. Therefore
the light blue just plain looks wrong to me. I do have the Tigura
beast in front of me and it’s clearly printed with a large patch of
white with a bit of the orange bleeding through from the plastic
underneath. I’d model that as white, not light orange.
My guess is the extreme white you see in the picture is the same
printing as the “blue-white”. It’s just brighter there because it
overlaps the earlier grey printing pass. This misregistering of the
printing passes will look different on every part and should not be
represented in the model.
|
I disagree on the overlap. if this is really a misregistering of the
printing passes the white border would have the same size in all
areas, while the white line on the rocket is much wider than the one
on the helmet or the craters.
|
So misregistering was a problem. Then perhaps the light grey was
purposely overprinted a bit in some spots, not to create a whiter
white, but to avoid ugly blue gaps between white and light grey due to
printing errors. You can see a bit of what they were trying to avoid
on the bottom right corner and the right side of the rocket on the 2nd
scan.
| |
before I started designing the part I also considered this being an
overlap (it would have saved a lot of time an effort just declare it
as an error) but IMO there ARE white borders around the craters,
minifig and the rest.
|
| |
I remember having a second version of this part I couldn’t use as a
basis for the re-engeneering because of its REAL overlap. I’ll post
a scan if I find it.
|
Yes, please do.
In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Chris Dee wrote:
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I have now located my copy of this part. The areas you mention
defintely have a feint blue coloration. I believe this is
deliberate, as I can make out the regular pattern of screening
dots. This is most obvious on the larger areas, but I believe it
does carry over into the border of the main image and the numbers
and borders at the top.
|
Did you flip the brick over and examine the texture? It’s not as
rough as these slopes, but it has a similar effect. The finer texture
simply makes for much finer blue spots.
We didn’t model the blue spots on these slopes, and we shouldn’t
model them on the spacelaunch brick. We didn’t model the blue
spots on the grey part of the helmet (see top scan) and we shouldn’t
model them on the white just because it bleeds a bit more.
Considerably over my two cent limit now, but hey, I’m a fanatic...
Don
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Don Heyse wrote:
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Chris Dee wrote:
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I have now located my copy of this part. The areas you mention
defintely have a feint blue coloration. I believe this is
deliberate, as I can make out the regular pattern of screening
dots. This is most obvious on the larger areas, but I believe it
does carry over into the border of the main image and the numbers
and borders at the top.
|
Did you flip the brick over and examine the texture? It’s not as
rough as these slopes, but it has a similar effect. The finer texture
simply makes for much finer blue spots.
We didn’t model the blue spots on these slopes, and we shouldn’t
model them on the spacelaunch brick. We didn’t model the blue
spots on the grey part of the helmet (see top scan) and we shouldn’t
model them on the white just because it bleeds a bit more.
Considerably over my two cent limit now, but hey, I’m a fanatic...
Don
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The surface of this brick is perfectly smooth, so the blue pattern I see is not
caused by brick texture, but by the screen printing process.
Nevertheless,
looking at the two mock-ups, I think the white version is closer to what it
“should” look like.
Chris
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Don Heyse wrote:
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Ok, which looks “right”? This:
or this:
|
The first, definitely.
Also, looking at the second scanned image (sorry, I snipped it from this reply),
the white ‘seam’ down the side of the astronaut’s helmet appears to be strictly
a printing defect - the white ink is positioned slightly incorrectly. Notice
the blue gap between the gray of the helmet and the white border. Adjust the
white to close up that gap, and the ‘helmet seam’ goes away. Along with most or
all of the other seams in the image.
Steve
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Don Heyse wrote:
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Willy Tschager wrote:
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up to now we have two samples of this part:
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|
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check this out. instead of 505 I just used a costum, dithered color with:
255 255 255 255 193 169
it is obvious to me that it’s just a lack of LDraw colors ...
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C’mon. It’s classic space, not Power Rangers (or Knights Kingdom).
There are no light blue spacemen or spaceships in classic space.
The moon is not made of bleu cheese. Look with the eyes of a 10
year old and tell me it’s not supposed to be white.
|
honey bunny, you are totally wrong on this side ;-) it’s not at all about
spacemen and classic space rockets and cheesy moons. we are talking about an
IMAGE of an astronaut-rocket-moon on a big screen. it just shows to me that,
though our beloved minif..er are travelling in space, they still haven’t
overcome the technical problem with big plasma LCD screens, beside the fact that
the pic. has been shot with a crappy DV-Cam from the beginning of the century
(do you remember that galileo satellite on the shoulder of Orion?). BTW the
screen has been calibrate to 9300K - read the manual in your 6970.
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My guess is the extreme white you see in the picture is the same
printing as the “blue-white”. It’s just brighter there because it
overlaps the earlier grey printing pass. This misregistering of the
printing passes will look different on every part and should not be
represented in the model.
|
I disagree on the overlap. if this is really a misregistering of the
printing passes the white border would have the same size in all
areas, while the white line on the rocket is much wider than the one
on the helmet or the craters.
|
So misregistering was a problem. Then perhaps the light grey was
purposely overprinted a bit in some spots, not to create a whiter
white, but to avoid ugly blue gaps between white and light grey due to
printing errors. You can see a bit of what they were trying to avoid
on the bottom right corner and the right side of the rocket on the 2nd
scan.
| |
before I started designing the part I also considered this being an
overlap (it would have saved a lot of time an effort just declare it
as an error) but IMO there ARE white borders around the craters,
minifig and the rest.
|
| |
I remember having a second version of this part I couldn’t use as a
basis for the re-engeneering because of its REAL overlap. I’ll post
a scan if I find it.
|
Yes, please do.
|
still searching. nontheless I’ll get really frustrated, if I have to get rid of
the white border after having spent so much time, just because we are
interpreting what’s supposted to see and not the real image (with an
doubtfull/undoubtfull overlap) I based the part on.
(snip-snap)
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Considerably over my two cent limit now, but hey, I’m a fanatic...
Don
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getting close to 1 euro - professional maniac ... ROFL
w.
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Willy Tschager wrote:
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instead of 505 I just used a costum, dithered color
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Yuck! >:^(
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I remember having a second version of this part I couldn’t use as
a basis for the re-engeneering because of its REAL overlap.
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Did you see this one? No light blue, bright white only on the right side
overlap.
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I’ll get really frustrated, if I have to get rid of the white border
after having spent so much time, just because we are interpreting
what’s supposted to see and not the real image (with an
doubtfull/undoubtfull overlap) I based the part on.
|
But look at the right edge of the rocket on this pic. You can
clearly see the white is brighter where the light grey lines
come in underneath it. Zoom in if you must.
The evidence is overwhelming! The whiter white is caused by
misregistered printing where the white overlaps the light grey. You
can even see patches of that light blue color where the blue gantry
comes in underneath the right edge of the rocket. But you didn’t
model that. Why not? Because it’s wrong, that’s why. Wrong! Wrong!
Wrong! Wrong! :^)
Don’t get frustrated. I love the job you did on this part. Even
if you win and we end up with that yucky light blue, I’ll still be
happy because I know I can easily replace it with the white enhanced
corrected version.
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getting close to 1 euro - professional maniac ... ROFL
|
I see your 1 euro and raise you 2.
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Willy Tschager wrote:
| |
hi folks,
we are seeking a helping hand to define the color scheme of this part:
http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/3754p90.dat
up to now we have two samples of this part:
if this 505 should be 505, as orion has put it “distinctly white with no
blue” or if I should use a different white with a shade of blue?
|
Willy,
From my own point of view, It looks like the inside lining of the rocket is
also 505 the one separating the outside (left) 505 and the gray shadow on the
rocket is supposed to be white. I like it the way it is, but consider one thing:
I read somewhere (in 1999-2000) that Lego used a maximum of 4 colors on its
painted bricks. Which would leave us with light gray (7), dark gray (8), pastel
or light sky blue (505; on a white primer?), and black (0).
On the 505 issue,
it is crystal clear this is light blue on white, making it an obvious case of
505.
I’ve been waiting on this piece for a looong time. Datsville, you’re going to
the movies! (Now showing: Apollo 13, 2001: A Space Odyssey, and From the Earth
to the Moon!)
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, James Jackson wrote:
| |
In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Willy Tschager wrote:
| |
hi folks,
we are seeking a helping hand to define the color scheme of this part:
|
|
| |
From my own point of view, It looks like the inside lining of the rocket
is also 505 the one separating the outside (left) 505 and the gray shadow on
the rocket is supposed to be white.
|
I agree with you - my mistake. I’ll correct it.
| |
I like it the way it is, but consider one
thing: I read somewhere (in 1999-2000) that Lego used a maximum of 4 colors
on its painted bricks. Which would leave us with light gray (7), dark gray
(8), pastel or light sky blue (505; on a white primer?), and black (0).
On the 505 issue,
it is crystal clear this is light blue on white, making it an obvious case of
505.
|
hmm ... I’m not a print-wizard nor skilled in what’s needed to make a dithered
color of some kind. I do not believe that we should “interpret” what’s supposed
to see, but what we are actually seeing and reengineer it as faithful as
possible :-)
w.
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In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Willy Tschager wrote:
| |
hi folks,
we are seeking a helping hand to define the color scheme of this part:
http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/3754p90.dat
there has already been a discussion with orion and steve through e-mail, but
it led to no end. the most critical point is the white-bluish color 505:
up to now we have two samples of this part:
and we are seeking some more (as well as your opinion) to find out if this
505
should be 505, as orion has put it “distinctly white with no blue” or
if I should use a different white with a shade of blue?
thx, w.
www.holly-wood.it
|
I have now located my copy of this part. The areas you mention defintely have a
feint blue coloration. I believe this is deliberate, as I can make out the
regular pattern of screening dots. This is most obvious on the larger areas, but
I believe it does carry over into the border of the main image and the numbers
and borders at the top.
Chris
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.cad.dat.parts, Willy Tschager wrote:
| |
hi folks,
we are seeking a helping hand to define the color scheme of this part:
http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/3754p90.dat
there has already been a discussion with orion and steve through e-mail, but
it led to no end. the most critical point is the white-bluish color 505:
up to now we have two samples of this part:
and we are seeking some more (as well as your opinion) to find out if this
505
should be 505, as orion has put it “distinctly white with no blue” or
if I should use a different white with a shade of blue?
thx, w.
www.holly-wood.it
|
I think you have made an assumption about the particular parts you are using as
a model. The printing process LEGO uses/used for this is faulty, and the white
strips you are referring to on the rocket and helmet appear to me to be simply
an overlap of the white and grey areas.
I dug out my copy of this part, and found that instead of a white stripe, I have
a blue one. Where yours overlaps, mine was printed so that instead of an
overlap there was a gap between the white and grey areas. To wit:
Click the thumbnail to see the large image (1280x960).
--Bill.
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