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In lugnet.cad, Anders Isaksson wrote:
> Sven Moritz Hein wrote:
> > for two years I have been programming on a little editor to do
> > things like that.
> > [...}
> > A sample screnshot can be found here:
> > http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/smhltec/cad/mainscreenshot.png
>
> The idea (and the program!) looks interesting, but I have one main question:
>
> Where do the primitives enter in this picture? It looks like both Kevin's
> ideas and your program are ignoring the primitives, working down on the bare
> polygons.
Yes, primitives are important. In my program, you can add them just like any
other part. I already implemented moving and I wanted to add scaling and
rotating, but I did not understand the rotation matrix command. Could anyone
explain that to me? Then I could also add the points from the primitives to the
point list and everything would be ok!
Of course a good 3D modeller and a converter would be fine, but are there any
good and free 3D modellers? It's already possible to convert files from
SolidDesigner to LDRAW, isn't it?
I also wrote a program to convert ME10 files (two-dimensional drawings) to
LDRAW. I use this function very often when I create parts.
So I still think a GUI part editor is neccessary, a combination of MLCAD and
LDDP for example.
Leg Godt-
Sven
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Sven Moritz Hein wrote:
> Then I could also add the points from the primitives to the point
> list and everything would be ok!
Ah, but it's here it's becoming interesting :-)
Now the point list must keep track of which points are 'free' and which are
belonging to a primitive (and not only 'a' but 'which?'), because the points
of the primitive may not be changed arbitrarily, only by translating,
scaling and rotating the full primitive. Which in turn may have effects on
other objects also connected to that primitive. And so on...
The more you start to think about it, the more complicated it gets.
--
Anders Isaksson, Sweden
BlockCAD: http://web.telia.com/~u16122508/proglego.htm
Gallery: http://web.telia.com/~u16122508/gallery/index.htm
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In lugnet.cad, Anders Isaksson wrote:
>
> Now the point list must keep track of which points are 'free' and which are
> belonging to a primitive (and not only 'a' but 'which?'), because the points
> of the primitive may not be changed arbitrarily, only by translating,
> scaling and rotating the full primitive.
Okay.
My point list now only shows the points of the polygons, not of the primitives.
But if I implemented primitives, it would just add these points to the list.
When I modify one, these point's wouldn't be affected because - as you said -
you can't change them like that. The program would change all the points of the
polygons but the primitives would stay the same.
My program does not "define" the objects by the points in the point list, it
just reads the file and displays them in the list.
I also added the feature "Use second program", so that you can open the part in
MLCAD etc. and do the changes there, if you like. Then just save it and my
program will automatically update its point list.
I only wanted to create an extended version of the MLCAD part authoring
commands...
I think the bigger problem is a part containing subparts that also contain
subparts. I don't know how to handle this. I could add points of a subpart to
the list (if I knew how to interpret the matrix), but not of sub-subparts or
sub-sub-subparts.
Another possibility would be that I added the primitive points temporarily, so
that they only appear when you really need them. Then I don't have any "dead"
points of former primitive shapes in the list and my program wouldn't have to
remember so many points. Just click on the part and say "Show points!" -
wouödn't that be a solution?
How do LDRAW converter use primitives? I think it'd be quite diffiult to make
the program recognize every scaled and rotated primitive.
You mustn't forget - this is all still a "dream". I did not program any
primitive integration yet. But if we know how to do it, I (or someone else?) can
try to add these features.
Leg Godt-
Sven
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In lugnet.cad, Sven Moritz Hein wrote:
> In lugnet.cad, Anders Isaksson wrote:
> >
> > Now the point list must keep track of which points are 'free' and which are
> > belonging to a primitive (and not only 'a' but 'which?'), because the points
> > of the primitive may not be changed arbitrarily, only by translating,
> > scaling and rotating the full primitive.
>
> Okay.
> My point list now only shows the points of the polygons, not of the primitives.
> But if I implemented primitives, it would just add these points to the list.
> When I modify one, these point's wouldn't be affected because - as you said -
> you can't change them like that. The program would change all the points of the
> polygons but the primitives would stay the same.
>
> My program does not "define" the objects by the points in the point list, it
> just reads the file and displays them in the list.
>
> I also added the feature "Use second program", so that you can open the part in
> MLCAD etc. and do the changes there, if you like. Then just save it and my
> program will automatically update its point list.
> I only wanted to create an extended version of the MLCAD part authoring
> commands...
>
> I think the bigger problem is a part containing subparts that also contain
> subparts. I don't know how to handle this. I could add points of a subpart to
> the list (if I knew how to interpret the matrix), but not of sub-subparts or
> sub-sub-subparts.
>
> Another possibility would be that I added the primitive points temporarily, so
> that they only appear when you really need them. Then I don't have any "dead"
> points of former primitive shapes in the list and my program wouldn't have to
> remember so many points. Just click on the part and say "Show points!" -
> wouödn't that be a solution?
>
> How do LDRAW converter use primitives? I think it'd be quite diffiult to make
> the program recognize every scaled and rotated primitive.
>
> You mustn't forget - this is all still a "dream". I did not program any
> primitive integration yet. But if we know how to do it, I (or someone else?) can
> try to add these features.
>
> Leg Godt-
> Sven
Just slightly on-topic...
I have done some semi-serious experimenting on my very old LDD program (LDD -
here: "LDraw Draw" and *not* "Lego Digital Designer"!)
My old program was not bad in many senses, but a disaster since you aren't even
able to save the work, just export as an LDraw dat file.
My LDD is a GUI pattern editor.
Screenshot:
http://web.telia.com/~u66203131/pix/ldd.jpg
URL:
http://home.swipnet.se/~w-20413/ldd.htm
It is so outdated by now that I don't recommend using it. But it may serve as an
inspiration when creating a new part editor.
Now, if I get serious with the newer version, users will be able to save the
project files in LDS format and of course create LDraw dat files as output. So
the temporary project name is set to LDSD. :)
/Tore
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On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:31:28 GMT
"Sven Moritz Hein" <sm.heinonline@freenet.de> wrote:
> Yes, primitives are important. In my program, you can add them just
> like any other part. I already implemented moving and I wanted to add
> scaling and rotating, but I did not understand the rotation matrix
> command. Could anyone explain that to me? Then I could also add the
> points from the primitives to the point list and everything would be
> ok!
>
> Of course a good 3D modeller and a converter would be fine, but are
> there any good and free 3D modellers? It's already possible to
> convert files from SolidDesigner to LDRAW, isn't it?
My ldraw import/export scripts for Blender can be used for part
editing, to a slight degree. It's lacking in edge functionality and
doesn't properly preserve comments currently. Since it was written
before Blender had the proper edge structures, perhaps that could be
improved, and comments could be tracked in a text. I used the script to
edit a couple of pieces before the bowtie winding fix was integrated.
The way it basically works now is that if you use it to import a piece,
it will load but not "flatten" that piece, so referring lines (such as
primitives or subparts) will be intact. Edges are nearly destroyed;
conditional lines will turn into "autosmooth" faces, and lines are
regenerated on export using only the active contrast colour.. I'm not
actually sure how that looks.
--
PGP fingerprint = 9242 DC15 2502 FEAB E15F 84C6 D538 EC09 5380 5746
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