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In lugnet.announce, Eric Kingsley wrote:
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- In early 2007 the decision will be made – based on sales performance of the 9v system during the fall of 2006 – if LEGO will continue the 9v System with metal rails after 2007.
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So, is LEGO going to actually have any 9v product available during this time to
accurately guage the performance of said product? Or will it be just the
remains of what they currently have, which most people already have.
It seems to me that it would be unfair to base the future of the 9v line on the
current high speed train (the only full train set currently available), which
IMO is one of the worst train sets ever made.
Also, do they plan on supporting the line at all? I keep hearing about this
so-called lack of interest from retailers and consumers for the train line, but
everytime we do a show, or every time I am at work (at a local toy store) the
only comments I get are along the lines of “I didn’t know LEGO made trains” and
then they buy some...
It seems to me that it is a lack of effort on the part of LEGO, not a lack of
interest. The store that I work for originally started out as a LEGO Train
retailer at the weekend train shows. The only thing keeping them from doing
greater business is that it is next to impossible to get product out of LEGO.
There have not been any full train sets available to them for months now.
Troy
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In lugnet.trains, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
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In lugnet.announce, Eric Kingsley wrote:
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- In early 2007 the decision will be made – based on sales performance of the 9v system during the fall of 2006 – if LEGO will continue the 9v System with metal rails after 2007.
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So, is LEGO going to actually have any 9v product available during this time
to accurately guage the performance of said product? Or will it be just the
remains of what they currently have, which most people already have.
It seems to me that it would be unfair to base the future of the 9v line on
the current high speed train (the only full train set currently available),
which IMO is one of the worst train sets ever made.
Also, do they plan on supporting the line at all? I keep hearing about this
so-called lack of interest from retailers and consumers for the train line,
but everytime we do a show, or every time I am at work (at a local toy store)
the only comments I get are along the lines of “I didn’t know LEGO made
trains” and then they buy some...
It seems to me that it is a lack of effort on the part of LEGO, not a lack of
interest. The store that I work for originally started out as a LEGO Train
retailer at the weekend train shows. The only thing keeping them from doing
greater business is that it is next to impossible to get product out of LEGO.
There have not been any full train sets available to them for months now.
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This may depend on your interpretation of hobby train I guess.
I think the purchaser of sets will want the all plastic train and track.
I can’t recall the last train “set” I bought. But I have bought a lot of track,
points, motors, track connectors and wheelsets. After all, the hobby is
designing and building trains isn’t it? Not building Lego train sets.
So perhaps the hobby train supplies will include the aforementioned elements and
not 9v sets. I don’t see lack of 9v sets equivalent to lack of support of the 9v
train hobby.
JB
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In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
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This may depend on your interpretation of hobby train I guess.
I think the purchaser of sets will want the all plastic train and track.
I can’t recall the last train “set” I bought. But I have bought a lot of
track, points, motors, track connectors and wheelsets. After all, the hobby
is designing and building trains isn’t it? Not building Lego train sets.
So perhaps the hobby train supplies will include the aforementioned elements
and not 9v sets. I don’t see lack of 9v sets equivalent to lack of support of
the 9v train hobby.
JB
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This is perhaps the case for those of us that already have the essentials to
make a LEGO train (track, controler, motor) but it certainly is not what is
required to bring NEW people into the hobby. People at the shows and at the
store all want something that includes everything they need to get started.
Once you get them started, then they will move on to purchase more of the
accessories.
Take this example: A couple weekends ago Cap Toys did a local train show.
There was no club layout at this show, but they had a running train at the sales
table. An older gentleman purchased a high speed train set and some extra
track based on liking what he saw. The follwing Tuesday he called the store and
ordered another box of straight track to be shipped to him so he could fisnish
his “layout”. And the following weekend he drove to the store (probably an hour
drive for him) and bough another car fro his train and a level crossing set. He
left with plans to come back and purchase a Super Chief train.
LEGO finally got the 9v train line to a point where there was a wide enough
product range, there was great club support, and hobby retailers were starting
to take notice. At the Columbus Great Train Expo there were actually TWO
retailers selling LEGO trains. It seems foolish to me that they would abandon
the line at such a point in time where evertying seems to be on the upswing.
But that appears to be exactly what they are doing.
Troy
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In lugnet.trains, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
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In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
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This may depend on your interpretation of hobby train I guess.
I think the purchaser of sets will want the all plastic train and track.
I can’t recall the last train “set” I bought. But I have bought a lot of
track, points, motors, track connectors and wheelsets. After all, the hobby
is designing and building trains isn’t it? Not building Lego train sets.
So perhaps the hobby train supplies will include the aforementioned elements
and not 9v sets. I don’t see lack of 9v sets equivalent to lack of support
of the 9v train hobby.
JB
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This is perhaps the case for those of us that already have the essentials to
make a LEGO train (track, controler, motor) but it certainly is not what is
required to bring NEW people into the hobby. People at the shows and at the
store all want something that includes everything they need to get started.
Once you get them started, then they will move on to purchase more of the
accessories.
Take this example: A couple weekends ago Cap Toys did a local train show.
There was no club layout at this show, but they had a running train at the
sales table. An older gentleman purchased a high speed train set and some
extra track based on liking what he saw. The follwing Tuesday he called the
store and ordered another box of straight track to be shipped to him so he
could fisnish his “layout”. And the following weekend he drove to the store
(probably an hour drive for him) and bough another car fro his train and a
level crossing set. He left with plans to come back and purchase a Super
Chief train.
LEGO finally got the 9v train line to a point where there was a wide enough
product range, there was great club support, and hobby retailers were
starting to take notice. At the Columbus Great Train Expo there were
actually TWO retailers selling LEGO trains. It seems foolish to me that they
would abandon the line at such a point in time where evertying seems to be on
the upswing. But that appears to be exactly what they are doing.
Troy
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I can’t disagree with anything you say Troy. With that said I think we have a
decent chance of convincing LEGO to maintain the line if we can all come
together and make our case. One thing I think that has been lost in the last
couple of years is the excitement about LEGO trains on the internet. I remember
hearing stories like yours and others every couple of weeks just a few years
ago. Now those stories are so commonplace we have stopped telling them.
We need to show the excitement we all experiance at our shows on the internet
again. We need to tell our stories. We need to point out that doing train
shows doesn’t just generate interest in LEGO trains but the LEGO brand in
general. People see all these fantastic models and it energizes them to buy
LEGO for their kids, grandkids, friends kids, and maybe even themselves and it
isn’t just trains it is LEGO period.
We all basically have traveling Mini-lands that constantly pop up and energize
and excite folks. That in turn gets them to buy LEGO. We need to find a way to
document and quantify that. The first way to do that is for us to tell our
stories again, show exciting layouts with eyes poping out all over.
I feel like I have recieved enough responses privately to go ahead and set up a
web site. Of course NELUG has a train show this weekend (how ironic is that) so
it may not be until early next week before it is ready. Once it is I would love
to see everyone’s excitement for our hobby show again on the internet like it
did just a few years back.
Think positive and be excited. Doom and gloom won’t get us anywhere at this
point. There will be enough time for that in 2007 if LEGO does indeed cancel
the line.
-Eric Kingsley
LEGO Ambassador
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In lugnet.trains, Eric Kingsley wrote:
(some interesting ideas)
That’s all well and good, and I think a website might be useful but it’s not the
way to prove the line is viable. That requires driving demand. But how?
What are the chances of LEGO enabling all the clubs to sell stuff at shows and
see if the supposed demand we think is there actually is? Not every club would
want to do it, of course but I expect some would. To enable it LEGO would have
to do it “on consignment” so the club wouldn’t get stuck with excess inventory
if it didn’t work, and have to sell to the club for less than retail so there is
some motivation, and would have to do it without a lot of red tape. Fast
turnaround, whatever product is wanted in whatever quantity (within reason) and
no “you have to sell curved track with straight, you have to sell this crappy
set with that good one” like small the retailers used to get hosed with.
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In lugnet.trains, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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In lugnet.trains, Eric Kingsley wrote:
(some interesting ideas)
That’s all well and good, and I think a website might be useful but it’s not
the way to prove the line is viable. That requires driving demand. But how?
What are the chances of LEGO enabling all the clubs to sell stuff at shows
and see if the supposed demand we think is there actually is? Not every club
would want to do it, of course but I expect some would. To enable it LEGO
would have to do it “on consignment” so the club wouldn’t get stuck with
excess inventory if it didn’t work, and have to sell to the club for less
than retail so there is some motivation, and would have to do it without a
lot of red tape. Fast turnaround, whatever product is wanted in whatever
quantity (within reason) and no “you have to sell curved track with straight,
you have to sell this crappy set with that good one” like small the retailers
used to get hosed with.
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You’re getting close to what I’ve thought for a long time, Larry.
Eric, you have some interesting ideas, for sure, and plenty of passion for our
hobby.
Here’s some simplistic opinions that I can share - it’s evident to me that
LEGO’s looking for an out, and they probably should. They’ve kept a fairly
tight exclusivity agreement in force through S@H for a long time, limited
availability, and haven’t tried to grow their 9v train business by lowering
margins and developing a seperate line of exclusive sets for distributors. I’ll
bet that there are plenty of professional entities willing to take over the 9v
train line, and I’m sure they can market it much better that LEGO has. A hobby
train distributor needs to make an offer to buy the rights to the line, and then
market them alongside existing successful products, including through retail
hobby outlets. Train show presence will increase awareness in cooperation with
LTCs, tapping into our existing passionate base of hobbyists. LEGO should be
seeking out those distribution entities before losing more money.
LEGO: Let it go and it will grow. Want to talk more?
Hobby train distributors: Use your experience to distribute and expand the
product line. We’ll buy it, help you market it, develop prototypes and demo
displays, and show you how to increase sales on an annual basis.
Ed
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> Also, do they plan on supporting the line at all? I keep hearing about this
> so-called lack of interest from retailers and consumers for the train line, but
> everytime we do a show, or every time I am at work (at a local toy store) the
> only comments I get are along the lines of "I didn't know LEGO made trains" and
> then they buy some...
The "lack of interest" is comming mainly from the big box stores like
Toys-R-Us, Wal-Mart, Target etc.
The problems for those stores are:
1.Compared to other toy trains (such as blue track thomas the tank engine
or any of the various wooden train sets or others), LEGO trains are expensive.
2.Compared to most other lego sets, lego trains are expensive
and 3.Unlike pretty much every other toy train which are either battery
operated or unpowered, LEGO trains require plugging into the wall (which
limits the market to kids old enough to play with toys that plug into the
wall and parents willing to buy their kids toys that plug into the wall)
Consumers interested in LEGO (talking the general consumer, not the people
who go to train shows or the line) are more likely to buy something else
(because of the high cost of LEGO trains and also because they require
being plugged into the wall which could be a safety risk for younger kids)
Consumers interested in trains will buy a competing train set
(because of the high cost of LEGO trains and also because they require
being plugged into the wall which could be a safety risk for younger kids)
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Wilson wrote:
> Consumers interested in LEGO (talking the general consumer, not the people
> who go to train shows or the line) are more likely to buy something else
> (because of the high cost of LEGO trains and also because they require
> being plugged into the wall which could be a safety risk for younger kids)
> Consumers interested in trains will buy a competing train set
> (because of the high cost of LEGO trains and also because they require
> being plugged into the wall which could be a safety risk for younger kids)
Jonathan-
One sad fact is that some parents don't buy LEGO trains (and LEGO in general)
because they don't want to assemble it and know/believe their child doesn't have
the skill or patience to put it together. (It surprises me how many kids buy
LEGO sets to obtain the assembled model but view the assembly process as a big
negative.)
-Ted
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Wilson wrote:
> 3.Unlike pretty much every other toy train which are either battery
> operated or unpowered, LEGO trains require plugging into the wall (which
> limits the market to kids old enough to play with toys that plug into the
> wall and parents willing to buy their kids toys that plug into the wall)
>
> Consumers interested in LEGO (talking the general consumer, not the people
> who go to train shows or the line) are more likely to buy something else
> (because of the high cost of LEGO trains and also because they require
> being plugged into the wall which could be a safety risk for younger kids)
> Consumers interested in trains will buy a competing train set
> (because of the high cost of LEGO trains and also because they require
> being plugged into the wall which could be a safety risk for younger kids)
Interesting that "plugging in" is veiwed as a negative. Most of the people I
know (myself included) would never buy a battery powered anything if a plug in
version was available. That is the reason I never bought a Mindstorms kit. When
I had saved up for one I found that all the new kits couldn't be plugged in.
That translates as completely useless and undesirable to me. I guess I better
stock up on metal track in the fall when they are gauging sales just in case
they get rid of them.
-Mike Petrucelli
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