Subject:
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Re: An Idea for new Mindstorm
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:23:08 GMT
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Original-From:
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JP4SPACE@PORTUGALMAIL.COMnospam
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Viewed:
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1297 times
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Citando John Barnes <barnes@sensors.com>:
In lugnet.robotics, jp4space@portugalmail.com wrote:
> Citando Alexander Horoshilov <hor@demo.ru>: • >
> In lugnet.robotics, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> >
> > Sorry if I misunderstood you. But, actually, I was talking about the blue • Scout,
> > not the Microscout (from the droid developer kit) • >
> Oh, It may be because of my cumbersome explanation. I do not have DDK and • do
> not
> know about that Scout abilities. But I still expect that it is limited to
> some
> built-in programs only. Is it? • >
> > So, what programs do you think TLC should write? And, how much would you • pay for a
> > program? • >
> What programs? It is tough question. Classics like line following and • walker
> would be a good start. • >
> I personally, think that price of $10-20 for the sotware only would be a • fine
> deal. Provided that production costs are about $1-2 per item (it is why SD
> cards
> are not so good - they cost at least $5-10).
>
>
> Personally, I don't agree with factory-made programs. Apart from lowering • the
> learning curve (as referred in another message), it deprives us from what I
> think to be the main idea around Mindstorms and programmable LEGO: freedom!
> freedom to create what you want, to add the sensors and the motors you wish
> and, most of all, to control your creations' behaviour!
> Imagine you wanted to create a robot that walked forward with a touch • sensor
> attached on the front. When it touched an object it would walk back, spin • twice
> and go forward again in the same direction. It's a somewhat "stupid" • program...
> But hey!, it's freedom! You want to create a program like this, so you • create
> it! Who's gonna stop you? Even if it is a complete non-sense, you have the
> freedom to create it. But do you think TLC would sell a program like this • for 10
> $-20$? And even if they did, who would buy it? I wouldn't pay half a dollar • for
> it... Because even if i need the program, i'd prefer to program it myself:
> that's the challenge on mindstorms, that's where resides all the fun =) TLC
> would be limiting our freedom to create and to program our robots. And that
> would bring some headaches to a lot of people who want to program their own
> creations...
> Sincerely, I don't think that those "pre-programmed programs" would be very
> popular... But it's a new idea, anyway ;)
> Best regards,
> João Pedro
I have to agree. If you don't want to build programmable robots, why not just
build a motorized model with a motor and battery box.
The whole point of Mindstorms, as I see it, is that you "add" programming to
a
structure of Lego elements to make it function in an appropriate manner. What
are the chances that some preprogrammed sequence of instructions are correct
for
the mechanical structure you just invented? (It is called Robotics Invention
System.)
I understand there are a proportion of Lego fans who simply build models
according to the set instructions, a very valid thing to do for some of the
really great sets - I do it myself and pop the finished models on my display
shelves - but I don't think Mindstorms is one of those sets. I think it is
meant
to be played with, and I think part of playing with Mindstorms is tinkering
around with programming. I think TLG made it easy for kids with their GUI
programming system, and I agree with a post elsewhere on this thread that 12
years old is higher than it needs to be. I know of quite a few younger kids
out
there who are at home with the Lego software for Mindstorms.
JB
This is my brother's case: he had just turned 11 a few days before I got my RIS
and he started programming "my" robots. He just followed the building
instructions in the constructopedia, but he programmed the robots himself...
But I read somewhere, in one of this post's messages, that the idea was
directed to those who don't want to learn to program... hey, with that graphic
interface, what programming skills do you need? I know very little of C, so I
haven't adventured myself in the world of NQC, but I received my RIS before I
learn any programming language... And my brother, who still doesn't know ANY
programming language today, DID program some robots when he was 11 years old! I
don't think that is a very good reason to develop a whole new set only for
those who don't wish to learn how to program, because there's already the
exactly opposite solution: those who don't wish to learn how to program can
stick around with an intuitive "language" as the LEGO GUI provided with RIS;
those who wish to program can take a step forward and learn NQC. Because, after
all, what LEGO provides is not a programming language, but a simple user
interface designed for 12 year old kids and a little bit older who wish to
build more dinamic LEGOs...
Best regards,
João Pedro
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