Subject:
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Re: Teaching kids to program (Was: Spybotics - A great disappointment)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:23:25 GMT
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Original-From:
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MiB <m8114@ing-steen.+stopspam+se>
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Viewed:
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1050 times
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Learning programing its not about the words - Its whats inside these words
that counts and how they relate. And also the excitement to know what
scrambles inside these small boxes. in atoms..
- in the same time another analogy is the more direct feeling of paddle a
bicykle. If you don't feel the balance you will end up sad. And I think here
is the keyfactor of what is missing in education. We Give children alots of
books - but the interaction dosn't exsist for some titles.
Couppleing between all these words and the infact action related things are
sometimes very hard. You have to be there - Getting hands durty - feeling
the balance sort to say. In a way its like looking at the google seach
page - and the child dosn't know what to search for. Still a blank screen
with google on it.
We say that some people are more or less gifted - but i don't think so. Its
more about the abillity to be quite and having the trust that soon the
answers will come. Sad for many. They like to feel and taste. Numbers and
words are in the end not a childs analogy, its what feels the most.
One thing since I self had Learning disabillities - was that programming -
by stepping thru programs I got a understanding for math - and by adding
strange numbers to the program - I got the idea to build on. This way has
generated alots of thougts about the way we should educate the next
generation. atleast it has to start withsomething that is fun - generates
Ahhhaaz like be with the knowlage, but not at distance. Please rememeber
that here in the nothen region another hard thing is that you got to have
command over the english language to learn something advanced like 3D and
game programming.
Well there is a method I am working on I call it structured learning memory
aid with the adress to these operatingsystems that is inside all the
palmpilots and other are not designed
for learning and getting knowlage from scratch. You have to think bicykle to
get the idea and how you did learn.
Another thing I got very selftaugt with was to play with 3D construction
programs - and there again to interactively change and be a good over a
world. I made my first project - A Video tape robot; and strangely when I
see things I relate what they can be used for more now then before, and this
relates abit to the above.
anyway
Regards
Marcel
Ingvar
Bos -- Gotta see the new movie;'-)
> MiB wrote:
> > well I think that is a documentation problem. Its nice to learn children • to
> > program - but with out the right steps it might even be a catastrof - in • the
> > terms of future choices.
> >
> > Learning children how to program is not a game, I haveself tried it - it
> > requires a supportive family who understand that this might take some • time.
>
> I've been trying it too - and although I've been a programmer for 30 years
> and my (11 year old) kid is in the 'gifted & talented' classes at school - • doing
> math three years above his age range - it's *STILL* an incredibly hard • thing to do.
>
> I have certainly been extremely supportive - and my child is certainly • wildly
> enthusiastic - but in my opinion, the missing skill is that of being an
> educator. I'm not a good educator - and none of the teachers at my kid's
> school know anything about programming.
>
> We tried Mindstorms - but Oliver never got beyond programs like:
>
> while ( 1 )
> {
> turn some motors on
> wait a bit
> turn one or other off again
> wait a bit
> turn different ones on or off
> wait a bit
> }
>
> ...we've both invested a lot of hours in trying to teach him that way
> and it just wasn't working. He could write programs like this - but he
> wasn't learning programming...if you see what I mean.
>
> To my very great suprise, what finally worked was when Oliver broke his • arm
> skate-boarding and out of boredom pursuaded me to splash out $16 on an • elementary
> C programming book. I didn't think this would help him much - but to my • great
> suprise - he is stubbornly working through chapter by chapter - typing in • examples
> from the book into one of our (5!) Linux PC's - with me explaining the • parts he
> doesn't immediately understand - and giving him new (but similar) problems • to try.
>
> This is an awfully painful process for him - but his determination to • learn (at
> age 11) is powerful - and to my complete amazement, it's working.
yes since the computer gives him the interaction - and the feeling of
something he likes to beat.. Beating the math teacher is not that good
idea:-) But still there is a documentation problem.
> I *think* that Mindstorms helped in getting his enthusiasm up - but • probably
> not to the same degree as the couple of years that he and I have spent • building
> 3D computer games for Linux. Oliver had been making 3D models and other • artwork
> for the games - and *DESPERATELY* wanted to be able to program them • himself.
>
> > "Tim Go out and play" Can not be said. It requires enthusiastic • qestions
> > about the world and nature outside, and much think about - at same time • you
> > can not be boored.
>
> Certainly you need enthusiastic and knowlegeable parents who are sensitive
> to the rhythms of a child's play/explore/goof-off cycles - but I'm now • convinced
> that this is not enough. Parents need to learn to be educators.
> > Or in one word - It won't be linux with out a real Linux (Linus)
> > grandfather. Its the same thing here..
>
> Well, according to Linus's autobiography, his Grandfather knew a little • programming
> already and they had a VIC-20 computer that you couldn't do much with • *except* to
> program it. At age 11 the ultra-geeky Linus was already fascinated with • calculators
> and good at math. He started out by typing in programs written out • longhand
> by his Grandfather who came from a Mainframe computer background where • writing
> programs onto coding forms and having other people type them in was what
you did.
> > (Where linus learned how to program - probably by learning how to ask
qestions)
> I don't think so.
>
> It seems that Linus learned to actually write his own programs by reading • the manual
> and typing in programs from magazines. Computer magazines don't publish • source listings
> for simple programs anymore - so that isn't gonna work for kids of this • millenium.
> Linus doesn't indicate that his Grandfather actually taught him anything • except
> keyboard skills. What made him persist was the fact that he was something • of a social
> misfit - his parents are divoced, his siblings were into sports - but he • wasn't - and
> Finland has LONG, GLOOMY DAYS throughout the winter when a kid can get • really bored.
>
> He had little else to do but to pound that VIC 20 keyboard and teach • HIMSELF by sheer
> persistance.
>
> This sounds a lot like my kid.
>
> ...But I don't think it'll work for most children.
>
> They don't generally have the math skills, the enthusiasm or the • concentration span needed
> to become self-taught. IMHO, Spybotics is bad from this perspective • because (just like the
> Scout and the MicroScout) they do 'enough' interesting things with almost • zero investment
> in effort to strongly deter kids from exploring further.
>
> On the plus side though, kids of today are practically born with keyboard • skills - they
> do homework using a wordprocessor and get typing lessons at school - so at • least that
> hurdle is removed.
>
> What I think is needed is for schools to teach programming as a regular • part of the
> 6th/7th grade math syllabus...but I can't imagine how we'd retrain all • those teachers
> in order to make that a possibility.
> ----------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------------
> Mail : <sjbaker1@airmail.net> WorkMail: <sjbaker@link.com>
> URLs : http://www.sjbaker.org
> http://plib.sf.net http://tuxaqfh.sf.net http://tuxkart.sf.net
> http://prettypoly.sf.net http://freeglut.sf.net
> http://toobular.sf.net http://lodestone.sf.net
>
>
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