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In lugnet.general, Thomas Main writes:
> I've found this discussion to be one of the most interesting topics on LUGNET
> in a long time. Thanks, Tim, for bringing it up. There have been tons of
> thoughtful responses so far, which seems to suggest that there _is_ a community
> and that we are involved and concerned about how we define ourselves and what
> we are as a group.
Yes - I'm pleased that it seems there are plenty of others with a broad
focus, I wasn't expecting quite the level of response the thread has gotten.
> > Particularly - what do you think the LEGO community includes? what does it
> > exclude?
>
> My main concern here is _who_ it excludes and why. Are there people out there
> that are interested in LEGO, have come by this site and been turned away? I
> think it is likely to assume that that has been the case. What are some of the
> reasons that people have not stayed or gone away after experiencing this
> community? Here are some of my thoughts (this is all speculation, btw):
In any community, people are excluded because the group or elements of the
group push them out - either consciously or unconsciously. This isn't a
LEGO-specific thing, a LUGNET-specific thing, it happens in any social group.
> Is there a culture here that makes it seem inaccessible to the casual fan of
> LEGO? Are the number of newsgroups too overwhelming? Too much
> compartmentalization?
In my experience talking to non-LUGNET LEGO fans, yes. There are properties
of LUGNET's discussion group system as well as the culture here which do
turn some people off. Then again, I imagine the same could be said for any
online community.
> Are there unwritten rules that newbies are afraid to
> violate?
I think that depends on the newbie's personality and perception of LUGNET.
Yes, there are unwritten rules here, but violating them isn't the end of the
world. Far more often than not, someone will politely correct a newbie and
the newbie will go on participating constructively on LUGNET. Perhaps a
potential newbie - lurker - will be more intimidated if they see a regular
jumping down a newbie's throat in a reply.
> Or does it seem worth the trouble to get to know them? Is there a
> "way things should be" attitude from long-time members that intimidate
> newcomers?
I think intimidation depends on the newcomer. But yes, I believe there's
definitely a "way things should be" attitude here. I'm guilty of it, too.
> Some questions a new person might have upon seeing LUGNET (speculation, again):
>
> Where can I post a message so that it won't be out of place?
> Will I be reprimanded for posting to the inappropriate group?
> What is the appropriate group for my message?
> What's all this crossposting, followup to, etc.?
> People take these polls seriously -- what if I make a poll that isn't
> up-to-snuff?
Lots of online communities have documents which orient newbies. They lay out
any rules, guidelines for behavior, etc. That would be beneficial here.
> My political beliefs don't seem to be welcome here...
> My religious beliefs don't seem to be welcome here...
It's just a given that *someone* won't welcome X religious/political belief,
but conversely, others will. A better question would be, why do people come
to a LEGO site to discuss religion and politics? :-) (you know what I've got
in my skip filter...)
> These people want to talk about everything _except_ the LEGO model I posted
That's a perennial complaint. I've got a fairly strong opinion about that
one, which I don't wanna share in this thread :-)
> > Since then, we've seen an apparent change in the demographic of the fan
> > community. More people online and involved today are general computer users,
> > and perhaps barely computer literate. They come from a wide variety of
> > backgrounds and with that have different attitudes and outlooks towards the
> > LEGO community.
>
> Maybe...but I think a fair amount of technological finesse is still required to
> understand these discussion boards and actively use them. For
> instance...understanding how to crosspost, setting up your browser and programs
> to view .dat/.ldr files, etc. This community, while promoting face-to-face
> meetings, is still very much an _internet_ community. And I think it is
> topheavy with people in the computer field. (I also assume that there are a
> lot of people interested in LEGO that are very technologically challenged...and
> they're examples of people being excluded from this community.)
If you're referring to just LUGNET, yes. Allthough I like the LUGNET
discussion system better than anything else I've seen, it still seems to
have a barrier to entry. Setup isn't always totally clear for new users, and
well, we're geeks, with our own way of doing things and a conformist attitude.
I like the norms we have on LUGNET, simply because they make discussing a
whole lot easier. Let words speak for themselves, no silly emoticons, font
colors, sizes, crappy animated avatars, etc. Yet, to some, that's a turnoff,
and an elitist attitude.
But, I've seen where some people either can't, or think they can't discuss
something adequately without those elements. To me, that just clouds and
diminishes whatever the person's trying to say, and promotes less
intelligent conversation.
> > Through local clubs and community events worldwide, we know that many LEGO
> > fans are not connected to the internet, or choose not to participate in
> > online discussion. There are also people who aren't a part of the
> > "mainstream" LEGO hobby - they embrace "controversial" [1] themes such as
> > Bionicle, or participate in LEGO organizations not directly connected to the
> > online community such as First LEGO League.
>
> And there are people like Gary Istok who collected for years outside of the
> community, became a very valued part of the community briefly, and has since
> disappeared again. Why wasn't the online community satisfying for people like
> that for the long-term? And where is Gary, btw?? What about Robert Carney?
There's a theory a few people have - that the most serious LEGO collectors,
the ones with the most bricks, don't post. Why? They're spending their free
time building or taking care of their collections. For some people, LEGO is
more private, or they don't derive the same value from discussing LEGO
online as others do.
> > As I'm trying to determine what the LEGO community means to me, I'd like to
> > hear what it means to you.
>
> It means a great deal to me. I believe in it as a community. I think it has a
> chance to draw more people in, and in the process, redefine itself. Is LUGNET
> a major part of that? I think so...this site is where I come to hear LEGO
> discussions. Are there other sites? Yes. Was r.t.l supplanted by this site?
> Yes. Will another site come along that makes LUGNET obsolete? Probably.
One of the things Jake and I had a side chat about was a point he brought up
- communities and relationships in them are good and bad. And I'm REALLY
paraphrasing here, and adding to it. Incidents, discussions, people who
aren't nice/positive/etc still exist in the community if they're active.
"Community" in the real world isn't rosy. Neither is it in the LEGO world.
It's great to be idealistic about what "community" is or what it can be, but
people should be realistic enough not to get disappointed when negative
incidents happen.
> Is the future of the LEGO community more in face-to-face contact or virtual
> contact? Both...but I think online contact will be dominant for the
> foreseeable future. Although I do hope local groups and small face-to-face
> communities grow (as I think they will).
Sure.
I'd love to see online contact framed in a way which promotes and encourages
face-to-face contact even more than it does so far.
> Well, while more members are going to come and some will drop out...to make the
> hobby more mainstream, it is going to have to be accessible by means other than
> online communications. I think LUGNET, and the online LEGO community in
> general, is near its saturation point. I think only so many people will want to
> share a hobby through discussion groups and online picture hosting.
I think that remains to be seen. As more ventures start getting the word out
more and more about the hobby, we'll see some fresh blood and growth here.
-Tim
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