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In lugnet.org.us, Matthew Miller writes:
> Mike Poindexter <lego@poindexter.cc> wrote:
> > Just because NELUG makes an exception for Shiri doesn't mean they have to
> > make an exception for everyone. Make it 18 for the age, with those under 18
>
> What exactly would we tell the person that got denied? "We don't think
> you're as cool as some other people, so you can't be in our club"? That's
> not likely to have a positive outcome of any sort. I certainly don't want to
> be the person saying that.
>
> I feel bad enough saying this to Shiri, and that's with a solid *sensible*
> rule.
A few thoughts strike me on this whole issue, and Mike's response:
- There is always a possibility of someone being immature or otherwise
innapropriate for a group. The issues of telling them they are no longer
welcome is no easier if they are older. In fact, I'd hazzard to say that given
a reasonable evaluation of someone, that if they fall short, and they can not
accept the explanation of why they are not welcome, then they perhaps ARE too
immature.
- The liability issue is a serious issue. Unfortunately, at least from what I
understand of liability law, the only real protection is liability insurance.
Waivers aren't worth the paper they're written on (and this goes for adults
participating in dangerous activities). I'm not sure how to resolve this other
than go under the assumption that if a waiver is signed by a parent or
guardian, then one is reasonably safe so long as the group makes a serious
effort to keep out of trouble.
- For myself, I'm glad the organizations I participated in as a High School
youth were not exclusionary. If they were, who knows where I would be today. I
strongly value what I got out of participating in MIT's game club and Science
Fiction conventions (and for neither of those did my parents ever sign
anything as far as I know - certainly not for the MIT game club). Because of
this experience as a youth, my own opinion lies VERY strongly in favor of
allowing participation of youth with proper controls (waiver if it is felt
necessary for older youth, parental participation for younger youth).
- One thing I would strongly encourage any group to do is that even if it
feels the liability issue is a problem, would be to open events at "public"
places to all. I see no reason why Shiri's Inn couldn't have been part of the
castle display at TCS. There is little reason to exclude someone from a
meeting at a restaurant, library, or other similar place. Meetings at
someone's home in fact could even be up to the host (they are the one's who
will be liable if a problem occurs, not the organization). It's also possible
to have some events which are open and some which aren't (for example, a
meeting at a bar, because the people want the opportunity to go out and have a
drink, would be very innapropriate for youth [at least given today's laws]).
- I see it as a little unfortunate that NELUG has used such a generic name
when it intends to be exclusionary, but perhaps folks who are interested in
having a more open group could create BOSLUG or something like that (and I
don't think a kids LUG is an answer either).
- One thought I would have on judging the "maturity" of an underage individual
who is a prospective member of a LUG is look at their posting on Lugnet. If
you tend to forget that they are not an adult based on their posting, then
they are probably a good prospect.
- Someone else raised an example of a church youth group for high school age
youth. As an advisor for such a group, I can say that there are good reasons
for such a group being age based. The nature of the group's interraction is
going to be much more age sensitive than a LUG's. I also happen to feel that
there is a serious difference between what I would allow a high school youth
to do, and a younger youth. I would probably want parental accompanyment for a
younger youth.
Frank
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Age limitations
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| (...) For what its worth Shiri asked me if she could put something in the window at TCS. I told Shiri in person prior to the TCS display going up that if she came to TCS when we were setting up with her Inn we would include it. If someone countered (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jul-00, to lugnet.org.us, lugnet.org.us.nelug)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Age limitations
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| (...) What exactly would we tell the person that got denied? "We don't think you're as cool as some other people, so you can't be in our club"? That's not likely to have a positive outcome of any sort. I certainly don't want to be the person saying (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jul-00, to lugnet.org.us, lugnet.org.us.nelug)
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