Subject:
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Re: Sonar question
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.geek
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Date:
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Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:55:12 GMT
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Viewed:
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1824 times
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In lugnet.build.military, Dave Schuler wrote:
> Can sonar "see" around objects? Can it detect, for example, a sub hiding on the
> other side of a reef or similar underwater obstacle?
>
> Here's why I'm asking: The kitchenette in my office is around the corner and
> down a hall, so I can't see when someone's getting coffee. But my pal Brian
> just sneezed mightily in that room, and I heard him clearly.
If you saw the world in sound waves, then yes, you could see them. A bat can
pinpoint objects smaller than a fly and at speeds that the human eye has trouble
being able to track. Not because light is faster than sound, which it is not,
but because their sonar reflexes are faster than our eye reflexes. They make
thousands of corrections per second in flight as they chase insects through the
skies. Bats "see" a very detailed world with their sonar.
Dolphins are supposed to be able to "see" internally into other creatures with
their sonar. Dolphins in scientific experiments have been able to detect a
pregnant woman because the sonar return registers the internal fluid and fetus.
This is almost like an ultrasound, except their sonar is a lot more powerful and
is not generated through electrical fields. Dolphins can even stun fish with a
very sharp sonar click. This powerful click would be the equivalent of a blast
or explosion that knocks humans out. Human sonar technology is reputed to be
better than the sonar of animals.
> I know that this has to do with wave propogation and all that, but I figured I'd
> get right to the meat of the question.
>
> And, if it can "see" around objects, can it also "see" the front and back of an
> object at once? Is our technology sufficiently developed to make use of this,
> or do we not yet have that level of resolution?
Yep, sure can. Check super sonar answer below.
> If not sonar, then do we have other sound-based technology that can do this kind
> of thing?
The Navy has some super sonar technology they use now to detect those sneaky
Soviet super subs with their super torpedos. The Navy knows that they are out
there, somewhere. They have not detected any yet, but they won't stop looking
for them because the Navy knows that the Soviet Union just wants everyone to
think that it broke up years ago. They are in fact waiting for us to let our
guard down. Anyway, this super sonar unfortunately causes hemmoraging (did I
spell that right?) in the sensitive sonar of whales and dolphins and causes them
to bleed to death internally. It would be like a high piercing sound that
ruptures our ear drums, except the sonar drums of whales are huge and bleed a
lot when they are ruptured by this artificial sonar. This sonar is able to "see"
around sub-marine mountains and chasms. I know that sonar is used to map the
ocean floor and can return very detailed echo bounces, i.e. pictures, of the
ocean floor.
If there was anything on the far side of a sub-marine mountain, then they would
see it. Unless, the mountain was huge or there was a cave, then the sonar return
would register a blind spot.
A complex and multi surface environment would take time for the many many sonar
bounces to return a detailed picture, such as a city scape. If someone fires off
a gun, it would take time to triangulate the location through the many building
surfaces that the sound would bounce off of. If the shooter was close, then
there would be a quick triangulation of the shooter's position because of fewer
sound bounces off of things.
> By the way: I know that sonar doesn't "see" anything; that's why I'm putting it
> in quotes!
Jolly good! There are a lot of anal retentive people on Lugnet.
> I plan to put sonar on all my spaceships, so I'm eager to learn of its
> limitations.
I hope you mean submarines. Sonar is sound based, sound does not travel in a
vacuum. The energy, i.e. sound waves, have nothing to vibrate to travel through.
That is why they say no one can hear you scream in space. Water is 800 times
thicker than air and so sound travels very well in water. Not that there is a
direct correlation, just that sound travels much the same as in air but I think
it needs more energy to do so.
Try LIDAR -- radar is a form of light, but with a more advanced light wave
configuration you would have a more improved RADAR system. I think current U.S.
military RADAR systems already use a pretty advanced light wave now. Photons
corkscrew as they travel. Astronomers are only now determining that using an
interferometer with their telescopes allow them to see a great deal more in the
light spectrum from the light of other stars. They have started to use this for
researching age of the galaxy and in looking for planets and such. That would be
cool for spaceship detection systems.
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Dave!
>
> FUT ot.geek
Did I prove my geekiness? I do not know many technical terms, just stuff I read
from Scientific America and Discover.
-Avery
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Sonar question
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| Can sonar "see" around objects? Can it detect, for example, a sub hiding on the other side of a reef or similar underwater obstacle? Here's why I'm asking: The kitchenette in my office is around the corner and down a hall, so I can't see when (...) (20 years ago, 20-Oct-04, to lugnet.build.military, lugnet.boats, lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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