Subject:
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Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:18:58 GMT
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Viewed:
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1595 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jon Kozan writes:
> > > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > > > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jon Kozan writes:
> > > > > > No, evolution didn't happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As Sherlock Holmes states - or is attributed to have said,
> > > > > > "After you eliminate the impossible whatever you are left with, however
> > > > > > improbable, must be the answer."
> > > > >
> > > > > Sherlock is a fictional character, not a scientist (and I suppose I
> > > > > shouldn't mention Piltdown Man and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in the same
> > > > > breath). :-O
> > > >
> > > > Way off topic here...
> > > > I suppose you thought that I believed the SH was real? hardly - Piltdown
> > > > wasn't either... - But we all know that too. But he was more of a pig
> > > > than
> > > > SH :-)
> > > >
> > > > -Jon
> > >
> > > If it's way off topicn then why do you bring it up?
> > >
> > > You suppose incorrectly. I was pointing out that you were using a fictional
> > > character to attempt to make a scientific point - a character written by the
> > > man who may (or maybe not, lotsa noise, little surety) have been behind the
> > > Piltdown Hoax, the man who wrote "The Lost World", to make a point about
> > > evolution. I simply find it hugely ironic. :-)
> > >
> > > Bruce
> >
> > Ironic it may be... but what is fundamentally wrong with the statement?
> >
> > ... "After you eliminate the impossible whatever you are left with, however
> > improbable, must be the answer." seems like a reasonable statement, whatever
> > the source, fictional or not. (the flaw, if any, is in the "left with" part,
> > since to be "left with" the correct possibility after eliminating the rest,
> > you must have enumerated all (or at least a set that includes the correct
> > one) the possibilities in the first place, a non trivial task)
>
> You have to realize the train of thought he is trying to establish. If he
> can prove evolution impossible, therefore, creationism, however improbable,
> must be the answer. He may deny that is the point he is trying to make, but
> note that there is no reason for the quote otherwise.
>
> This discussion follows the usual pattern of creationists: the scientific
> world doesn't accept it (with no evidence in any reputable scientic journal
> forthcoming); shot down there, creationism is just as accepted (same lack of
> evidence forthcoming); shot down there, evolution is just a (sneer) theory
> (basic lack of understanding of the nature of scientific process); shot down
> there, evolution is impossible and therefore creationism has greater
> validity (which ignores that it still fails the scientific process
> regardless of the conclusions on evolution); shot down there, hey its all a
> matter of FAITH, so they are equivalent.
>
> He is misapplying the quote in the manner of a sophist, and as you point out
> has certainly not covered all the applicable bases.
Actually no - you presume incorrectly :-)
I realize, by now, that I can't convince you of much, but, here and now, my
only point is that you should not hang your hat on "evolution" (in it's many
definitions) except so-called 'micro-evolution'. I may posit that there are
other theories which better fit the observed data. However, at that point, I
can only leave it to you examine them for yourself - however you will (or make
your own explanation).
I agree that SH's quip is problematic - one can prove what did not happen far
easier than what did happen.
I liked it, so I typed it :-)
-Jon
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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| (...) You have to realize the train of thought he is trying to establish. If he can prove evolution impossible, therefore, creationism, however improbable, must be the answer. He may deny that is the point he is trying to make, but note that there (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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