Subject:
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Description vs. argument
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 15 Jan 2001 02:58:51 GMT
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Viewed:
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1285 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> >
> > > There is a cultural difference between us...
> >
> > Indeed there is. We have a culture of freedom, or did, in the US.
>
> There are those who say the US has no culture.
This can be taken many ways. If intended as a slur about our
arts/literature/media, etc... it's irrelevant, and untrue.
If intended as a comment on melting pots vs. many separate cultures, it's
also untrue. The US has more of a unified culture than societies that don't
encourage assimilation, but rather accept coexistance. Such as yours in
which there are many ethnicities all keeping totally separate. That's not a
slam against the UK, just a notation of difference.
If intended in some other way, please amplify. Or were you just sniping with
soundbites? Yawn.
> Larry I have questioned your "freedoms" many times - and each time you fail
> to answer me. Until you are willing to answer those points, keep you vague
> assertions to yourself. :-)
Asked and answered. In depth. Pay attention.
> > "Live free or die" - Motto on New Hampshire license plates
>
> There may be "little possibility for common ground" if you are only willing
> to quote bumper stickers back your argument.
True.
However, your lack of knowledge of US culture, and your own history shows
through if you dismiss that motto as a mere bumper sticker. It's on the
license plate of every New Hampshire resident as a reminder that it is the
state motto. And unlike other state mottos, it has a rather long and
glorious history, since it was the motto chosen by the New Hampshire
militia, and flown on the New Hampshire battle flag, when the New Hampshire
militia kicked Red Coat butt during the revolutionary war.
You remember that war, right? That's the war in which we threw off the yoke
of the British oppressors. It was a war about freedom, after all. So it's
not too surprising if you forget the little details about it since it wasn't
one of the British Empire's brightest moments to have the starch beaten out
of it by a ragtag band of patriots (patriots armed with the latest military
technology of the time, but a militia, not an army.)
And further, the quote itself wasn't intended as a supporting argument of
anything. It was merely a descriptive statement of sentiment, illustrative
of our differences in outlook. A sentiment, since it has to do with freedom,
and rights, and resistance to tyranny, that you're evidently not comfortable
with. Deride it if you will, but you must acknowledge that it's a notion you
don't accept, and that I do.
I realise that non critical thinkers might have difficulty with the
difference between expository statements and argument.
"Live free or die" makes no argument. It merely describes a sentiment. A
sentiment I hold, and one you apparently do not. (yours is, perhaps "better
red than dead" which is diametrically opposed in sentiment?) Hope that helps.
++Lar
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Description vs. argument
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| (...) It is a simple observation. (...) You are a little wrong here about the UK. But I think, overall, we have mixed well - given that most immigrants arrived here post WW2. As far as I know we have never had legal segregation in the UK. (...) I (...) (24 years ago, 15-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Description vs. argument
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| (...) I happen to feel connected to this particular fight since I'm from the US, but it's really not my favorite of these examples. I prefer the one where Shaka, using nothing but spears and genius, routed the British army in Zululand (South (...) (24 years ago, 15-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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