Subject:
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Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:12:33 GMT
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Viewed:
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703 times
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In retrospect, perhaps I should not have responded to David's post.
I certainly didn't expect to spend this much time here. :-)
I'll do my best to answer questions posed to me, and I don't mind
civilized debate, but I don't see how sweeping generalizations are of
much use. I am baffled by your _apparent_ hostility Tom - I'm guessing
that others professing Christianity have offended you? I'll post a brief
response to this branch, and let you make the call on anything more specific.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes:
> Dave Schuler wrote:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Brown writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes:
> > > > But according to others in this group, man doesn't HAVE free will -
> > > > God knows everything anyone will do from cradle to grave - where
> > > > is the free will in that?
I don't know whom the "others" are, (or the group for that matter)
but I see no Biblical basis for saying man doesn't have free will.
Quite the opposite in fact.
> > > Well, I can't speak for others, but here is one take on it...
> > > If I choose to (X), or to not (X), how does God knowing ahead of
> > > time which I will choose affect my making the choice?
> >
> > Right, but Tom isn't just saying that God decides in advance which
> > way we'll turn out; Tom is asserting, I believe, that in order for the
> > outcome of an event to be known in advance with absolute certainty, that
> > event must be pre-set in some way, and therefore freewill is an illusion.
>
> Yep, that about pegged it. If you believe in an omniscient, omnipotent
> God, you're kidding yourself if you don't think the ENTIRE game is rigged
> from femtosecond one to the end. Free Will is nothing but an illusion.
We're bounded by one point in time - God is not. He can "see" any and
all points in the past, present, and future. Imagine if you could travel
back in time one minute (like Einstein in Back to the Future, only backwards
instead of forwards). You would know that this post would appear on your
screen, that I'd posted a reply to your post, that Leanne was going to walk
past your desk, that the phone in the next office was going to ring, etc.
Your knowledge of these occurrences would only change them if you had the
ability to affect them and chose to do so. You might decide not to read
this post for example. :-) Then again, you'd know you had jumped back in
time too, so then you'd know… Hence the paradox and interesting Sci-Fi
movies. :-) By the way, what numerical prefix is "femto" anyway?
> I believe being "moral" does not require some book telling us what's "Moral".
True - David and I are discussing upon what we base our morals.
Upon what do you base yours?
> …refusing to stop pushing our religion of choice upon others
> when asked to desist...
Am I pushing? Have you asked me to stop? Am I mistakenly responding
to something you intended for another? Is this post pointless?
SRC
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