Subject:
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Re: Parental strategies? (was: Re: Abortion, consistent with the LP stance? (Re: From Harry Browne)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:34:20 GMT
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Viewed:
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1298 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
>
>
> John DiRienzo wrote:
>
> > Thanks Chris for addressing that which is too rarely looked at. Children
> > no more need a master on Earth than a master in heaven.
>
> Uh, we don't know that...
This is a deep epistimological issue. Which part don't we know? I don't know
that the sun came up this morning (I've been at work since before sunrise) but
I don't just 'think' that it has. Actually, I'm willing to go out on a limb
and say that I 'know' that it has. When we have all the evidence that it takes
to convince us of something, it is popular to say that we 'know' it.
> > Most people do not
> > understand the purpose of the mind and have no concept of how to kindle its
> > fire.
>
> And you do? Please enlighten, but first please cite your source of this
> understanding.
I think John D's use of 'purpose' is a mistake. His description of how minds
are handled seems right to me though, and what I know is that that's now what I
think is right for people who are individuals rather than just a cog in the
great machine of society.
> > I think you have done a good job of showing how most people stifle
> > that fire before it's even begun.
>
> I think he's shown how to get your kid to call you by your first name, that's
> about all.
That's dumb. First, I clearly stated that mostly my son calls me dad. And of
all the points in our little conversation about parental strategies, is that
the only thing you care to address? Surely you agree that what your kid calls
you is almost trivial..?
> > For clarity, when a child is first
> > capable of thought, the popular thing to do is tell him that the ultimate
> > decision maker is not himself, but some fiction in heaven
>
> Uh, we don't know that....
We don't know that it's popular or that it's a fiction? It is pretty clearly
popular. And while I can't prove that it's fiction, I have an argument exactly
as strong as you have showing that we're not surrounded by invisible rhinos
just waiting for us to show delight in the color fuscia so they can punish us.
> > that will
> > determine his immortal and eternal fate and so he must act in accordance
> > with whatever whims of self-abnegation that his society has lived under for
> > generations. Then, the popular thing to do is tell this same child that he
> > is not the decision maker in his own life, that the person doing the telling
> > is the ultimate authority during this phase of life. By the time the
> > speaker allows the grown child to make decisions his mind no longer
> > functions properly, it ceased to long ago, and every decision made is a
> > mistake,
>
> Makes me wonder how we even survived as a species!
Well for most of our history we didn't have big monotheistic religions
breathing down our necks. So when we most needed individuality (if we did) we
had ready access to it. For the past ~3000 years we've been consolodating into
large social units where individuality didn't matter as much. There is a
strong case (in my mind) suggesting that religion in general is a fiction
invented to keep the masses in line. The species survives not becase the
individual is valued but because many individuals keep reproducing.
> > made at the behest of the popular wisdom which he is completely
> > dependent on because he is unsure of his own wisdom (rightfully so, as he
> > has none to call his own). Instead of learning and growing wise, he has
> > been trained to memorize and accept popular wisdom, and for the 98.85% who
> > aren't aware of it, the popular wisdom just is not that wise.
>
> For the record, Christianity teaches that "popular wisdom" is foolish; just
> about everything Christ taught turned conventional wisdom on its ear.
He was certainly a rebel. But the currently accepted twisted permutations of
His teachings are now the conventional wisdom. We need new rebels to keep
things improving.
Chris
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