Subject:
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Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:16:24 GMT
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Viewed:
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1880 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Karim Nassar writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> This is interesting... In one of my college english classes, I wrote a
> term paper that used chaos theory & fractal geometery to argue that "Free
> Will" is a contradiction of terms because, following the theory of
> mathematical chaos, because the universe is 100% deterministic, so is
> personality formation and therefor descision making... :) Basically, my
> summation was "the only freedom of the will is freedom from the will..."
> I essentially said that one cannot have both willful action and action
> that is free of outside influences...
I have understood that chaos theory implied that the universe was holistic and
non-deterministic. That is, certain behaviors can be modeled with some degree
of accuracy, but the large number of outside influences would always prevent
100% accuracy. In order to predict the outcome of a single small event, all
outside events would need to be recorded and inputted without delay. A model
to predict the effects of a Chicago-bound butterfly's wings flapping would
literally be as big as the universe.
Curious. For the purposes of this argument, does the notion that the universe
is deterministic mean that, given enough data and enough computational power,
a single person's inputs and actions can be predicted with 100% accuracy? If
so, then of course free will is impossible. (1)
Let's put a Heisenberg slant on it. Presumably, a sufficiently transcendant
being (2) might have that power. But can such a being know and predict his
own fate with 100% accuracy -- IOW would knowledge of one's own fate skew the
results? (Corollary: would an inability to perfectly know oneself, then,
skew the prediction of *everything* since it would ultimately affect
everything?) Such a being would have to completely and absolutely isolate
himself from the universe in order to predict his own fate. But even his own
retraction from the universe would have an effect on the amount of time it
takes for my Mac & Cheese to come to a boil.
Not that this would prove or disprove God, but merely His interaction with the
universe coupled with His desire to predict His own fate. If God chose to (or
otherwise happened to) *not* predict His fate, then He fits well within a
deterministic model.
Either way, I'm willing to bet that God does play dice with the universe.
Cheers,
- jsproat
1. What if our universe is just a test-bed universe to predict the outcome of
a sports event in some other universe...?
2. God or otherwise. Though for the purposes of this argument, this being
would need to be capable of creating test-bed universes; it would be God to
puny beings like us. (3) See _A Darkness Upon the Deep_ by Vernor Vinge...
3. I love the Rush song "Free Will". Geddy sez, (regardless whether FW is
possible or not) he *chooses* to follow that path. I'm starting to really
like Rush, but the only radio station in northern Utah that plays Rush is the
local Heavy-Metal-Rocks-Dude!!1!!!! dreck. The band's a little high-brow for
them IMHO...
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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| (...) The primary tenants of Chaos Theory are 1) The universe is deterministic. 2) The universe is chaotic. Put simply, you were correct, in that for all intents and purposes, it is impossible for us to make long-term predictions of chaotic systems (...) (25 years ago, 12-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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| (...) This is interesting... In one of my college english classes, I wrote a term paper that used chaos theory & fractal geometery to argue that "Free Will" is a contradiction of terms because, following the theory of mathematical chaos, because the (...) (25 years ago, 12-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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