Subject:
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4. Why are some nonbelievers admirable people?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:36:17 GMT
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Viewed:
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1580 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> Erik Olson wrote:
>
> > If someone seems to be leading a good life, you notify them that
> > they're going to burn in hell if they don't make changes. This phenomenon is the
> > first clue that the whole Judeo-Christian tradition is *part of the problem on
> > Earth*. And there isn't anywhere else that matters.
>
> I see. I take it that you've never met a Jew or Christian who's had a
> positive influence in your life?
I'm not going to debate this, because there have been a lot. Just like
the Christian has to ask "Why are some atheists, Mormons and Jews
decent people?" (DUCK NOW!) the atheist wonders "Why are some
Christians good people?" The reality is most people are mixtures of
everything. We inherit culture and most people accept a synthesis and
don't examine every aspect of their lives for logical consistency. If
a Christian happens to think what I wrote about the Good Life is
common sense and fine, in fact they may practice it to the hilt, they
inherited that attitude in a mixture of Enlightment thinking.
(Baptists will quibble.) Now if you are asking do I admire anything
that someone does for their faith (like charity) that is one thing,
and everything else is another. OK, so I'm debating...
I have known a lot of Christians who never think very much about God's
will, good and bad, a lot of worldly Christians in other words, and a
few certified essential Christians, preachers generally, who I regard
as evil because they teach VBS, advocate self-sacrifice, bore people,
tell us our priorities are upside down, make claims about supernatural
events, advocate talking to Jesus, foist Creationist books on people,
say reason has failed, etc, all motivated by faith.
If one of these jumps onto a train track to save a kid, I don't think,
wow, Jesus is great. I see it as the actions of a brave person doing
what they can. I believe in helping people generously, but not giving
sacrificially. If a Christian is more motivated than the next guy
(including me) to jump into a hopeless death trap for a stranger, I'm
not persuaded he's onto something.
My answer then is "Yes, but..." I admire their worldly actions, I have
probably been taught a thing or two, but I take that as data, not
evidence that their religion is true or that there is a God.
>
> I agree that people thumping their chests and proclaiming themselves to be
> "Christians" and trying to force you to change your life into something your
> experience tells you is bad, are fairly annoying. So would anyone thumping
> their chests and proclaiming themselves to be anything and trying to force you
> to change your life into something your experience tells you is bad. But
> please don't let this experience bias you against Christianity or Judaism or
> whatever. You're only reacting to the loud people. Give the quiet ones the
> benefit of the doubt.
The quiet ones I take to include those who "pray continually". I hope
I have given some indication that what I take exception to is faith
and what they recommend for their spiritual, inner life. If they
choose to deny themselves and take up crosses and preach the gospel to
all creatures, or not, it's the root cause that still bugs me.
I hope this fulfills the type of rational conversation you started
this thread for!
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Message has 1 Reply:
Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?
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| (...) It's funny you mention that. An article of my church's faith declares that "we belive that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." (...) What then is the good life? Can you tell me that? Can anyone (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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