Subject:
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Re: Mormon bashing again
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 7 Mar 2000 00:09:59 GMT
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Viewed:
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468 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> > > In fact, legislating morality goes against the concept of free agency, • which
> > > is core to our beliefs.
> > What is this?
> Back in the real world, my church provides rules and guidelines for its
> members, and then steps back and lets people govern themselves. Not even the
So, church members are free agents in that they're allowed (encouraged, or
required) to make their own decisions about stuff?
> There were several reasons why polygamy was useful, especially considering the
> effects that persecutions and subsequent cross-country migrations were having
> on the Mormon population.
That's and interesting explanation. It seems conveniently coincident that the
recall of polygamy coincided with The US borders moving West and the inclusion
of Utah. It just seems like God is micromanaging by going with the flow of
political winds.
> Polygamy wasn't rampant, either; the polygamous marriages were conducted with
Right. Did folks just decide to enter polygamous marriages, or were they doled
out by God via the church?
> (Note that the state of Deseret was *not* in the U.S. at the
> time, but rather in the Mexico frontier; and Mexico didn't see fit to bother
> the church about these things. I contend that no laws were broken.)
I agree. And it's a stupid law anyway.
> > (Is it correct that any president of the
> > church is considered to be a prophet?)
>
> Yes. It's sort of a prerequisite for the job.
Is it also correct that there are other prophets? How does one know who
prophets are? Part of Smith's reasoning (pre Mormon) was that the Bible tells
you that you can ask God for clarity directly. This seems like it would
encourage people to seek personal prophecy more than other Christian sects.
> It is a stance of my church that all people are assumed to be worthy of good
> treatment. However, it has been my experience that some people can be real
> jerks, especially to other people.
Gee, you've noticed that too? ;-)
> > What about all the weird stories that (I think) appear in the BOM? Joseph's
> > discovery of tablets, magical translation glasses, Jesus in the new world • with
> > native cities of gold, etc? Are these assumed to be true verbatim, or do • you
> > take some kind of allegorical stance on them?
>
> Well, if you use those words, of course it sounds goofy.
Don't take it personally, Moses talking to a burning bush sounds pretty goofy
too. (Which I realize is part of your religion as well, it's just part of
Christianity that isn't exclusive to your sect.) Actually, which words made it
sound goofy? Was it my implication that the glasses were magic rather than
divine? I don't think of them as different, so if that was offensive, I
apologize.
> It's like saying
> that the United States was founded by a bunch of spoiled, renegade lawyers
> 'cause they were tired of being the best-treated English colony. (And I guess
> there are those who think that way. :-)
Well, yeah. Isn't that basically the case? I'm glad they did, and I'm glad
they changed some of the stuff that makes us different from England, but I
think that's a pretty fair description of the American Revolution.
> Yes, these items from the Book of Mormon are taken to be true ver batim.
My first bet is that this makes conversion harder since people seem jaded to
the idea of a personal (and tangible) relationship with God and his critters
(angels and such). But maybe it only makes it harder to convert other
Christians.
Were you born to a Mormon family, or did you convert?
> There were witnesses to the
> golden plates and the "magical translation glasses", and none have ever
> recanted on their testimony of what they saw.
Weren't they Joseph's brothers, or were there more?
> > How does mission success compare inside and outside the US?
>
> I don't have numbers for this; I would suspect that international reception to
> my church is higher right now than it was ten years ago. Egad, I don't even
> know where to ask. I'll start with my brother; he served his mission
> recently.
It's not too important, I thought you might just have a feel for it.
If my impression of mormonism is from a few books (Saints, fiction by Card was
the best read of the lot), and a few talks with Mormons (is it correct to refer
to you as saints?), what would be my next best time investment for learning
more? The obvious answer would be the BOM which I have yet to read, but do you
have any other suggestions? One of the ideas that I harbor about the LDS
church is that there is a fair degree of secrecy; how do you suppose it would
be received if I wanted to visit Mormon services but was open about being
unconvertable?
Um...I had another question but it's escaping me.
later, (and thanks)
Chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) Yes, we are instructed to exercise free agency. It is one of the greatest blessings, promised to all of us in the pre-existance, and given to us when Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit. (...) I see. You're setting up for a oft-debated (...) (24 years ago, 7-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| Chris, Sorry I took so long on this; I needed to get a few facts straight before responding. (...) It was something of a response to a select few loud and closed-minded people on Slashdot (who'll probably never read this, oh well) who were bashing (...) (24 years ago, 6-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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