Subject:
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Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:56:34 GMT
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Viewed:
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2356 times
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<3885C764.F1AF855@eclipse.net> <FoLCpu.CzB@lugnet.com>
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James Brown wrote:
>
> Yup, that was clear. I don't quite get "the chain of management...follow" -
> are you saying that the boss(es) of the scapegoat should also get punished?
In many (but not all) cases - yes.
> That's exactly it. Even in this fairly simple scenario, responsibility
> diffuses fast. What you're talking about (seems to me) is punishment WAY out
> of proportion to the crime. If make a typo in a training document, that might
> hvae lead to somebody getting killed down the road, I should get thrown so far
> in debt I can't ever climb out? Even more extreme, I'm getting the message
> here that my proofreader, who missed the typo, should get tossed down there
> with me. And my manager, who didn't hire someone that doesn't make typos.
> (Just to be clear - if my typo DID lead to someone getting killed, well, yes,
> I should get thrown so far into debt my head spins - but that's it. MAYBE my
> proofreader, if it can be shown beyond reasonable doubt that they are also
> negligent, but that's it.)
OK, I'm in your scenario now. People dying as a result of _anything_ is
pretty serious. Your typo is a problem. You should be punnished
reasonably, but maybe not so much that your head spins - in this case.
Your proofreader who must have been negligent is similarly responsible.
In this specific case, I think that whoever designed a system by which a
typo could lead to death - or allowed the working system to degenerate
to that point should get the big bill.
Now, I also accept that even with reasonable caution, accidents happen.
If reasonable people following reasonable caution slip up, that should
be considered by the court. If you are the instruction writer, and are
pretty versant with the language, and it goes to two seperate
proofreaders who are professionally capable and this is what the whole
industry does and there has nver been an accident like this before.
Maybe a court would find that it was just a mistake that people don't
really bare personal responsibility for. And the company would pick up
the whole tab.
But, it was a big bad thing when - back in the 70s - the actuaries at
Ford decided that letting Pintos explode and settling out of court is
cheaper than recalling them so that reasonable safety measures are met
and the chain of management agreed and approved. The court should have
dropped with both feet on the company and on the persons involved,
stripping them of future livelihood, and exiling them to live under
wharves brawling for extra bait that the fishermen leave out. I want
the court to have that kind of power and I want it to be used when such
wild unconcern for rights and life are displayed.
> Punish the company, yes. Punish the people shown to be responsible *beyond
> reasonable doubt*, yes. But punish everyone who might have had something to do
> with it? That last seems to be what you're advocating, and I can't get my
> head around that.
I think that my examples in the note probably bring our views closer in
line. Is that so?
Chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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| (...) Yup, I agree, but you missed the phrase "might have lead". If there's no clear indicator as to where the responsibility lies, how can it be arbitrarily assigned? That just screams "WRONG" to me. <snipped bits about the Pinto> Yes, I agree with (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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| (...) Using a country in the middle of ethnic cleansing as a comparison is hardly flattering. You can get shot in any country, but it's more likely to happen if you live in the US than say the UK. (...) I find it easy to believe, however I would (...) (25 years ago, 11-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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