Subject:
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Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:28:23 GMT
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Viewed:
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2422 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Edward Sanburn writes:
> > > > I don't think I have said or implied that, but if you can show me where I
> > > > have then I'll gladly back down from that indefendable viewpoint!
>
> Hmm... some examples you gave, but it seems definitions of yourself is
> hard to come by. What do you think? What role should government play in
> peoples lives? Should government control corporations? etc.
IMO, shareholders and the purchacing power of a few knowledgable consumers
isn't enough to control corperations.
What are the evils that corperations *could* do, if they were allowed?
* Education - biased or limited, creating clones to work in their factories
* Employment - no-future jobs, exploitation
* Pollution - dumping near people, noise, chemical etc
Not that these *would* happen in System X, these are some of the fears shown on
this forum though!
In the system I described, if a Town was unhappy with corperate education, then
they'd have the ability and mobility to provide their own.
If the companies were exploiting local workers then the community would be able
to stop any violation of rights, or provide alternative employment.
If a company was polluting a community, or land owned collectively by the
community then that could be considered a violation of the peoples rights.
Whether a company should be allowed to own land is another issue.
All of the measures to avoid the 'evils' of corperate hell would undoubtably
cost more money.. additional tax - but if the community wanted it enough and
they were prepared to pay the tax to do so, then that is their right.
> > At the moment I favour the Governmental System that I proposed in the link
> > above.
>
> Yes, but you know and I know I don't think that will ever happen.
You could say the same about Libertarianism, or that Libertarianism wouldn't
happen without it, or it wouldn't happen without Libertarianism.
To be honest, I think Libertopia might be a nice place to live under the system
I described. But not without it! Either way, I'd be free to move and commune
with the soil and sell lentils with my hippy brothers and sisters if I couldn't
dig the bad capitalist vibes man.
> Do you think socialism is good. You live in Britain, so Tony Blair is a Labor
> party, which, from what I know of, is a socialistic party, unless I am
> mistaken?
I think Socialism, like Libertarianism is an ideal. Whether either can work
depends on how they are implemented.
Tony Blair invented 'New Labour', which is essentially staying as right as any
conservative whilst blaming the problems on.. the conservatives.
> > > You also seem to have a chip on the shoulder about advertising, would you
> > > care to elaborate?
> >
> > Other than it's a colossal, sorry COLOSSAL waste of finite resources, yes.
> > It's like a tax on goods that I have no choice to pay.
>
> Well, you do have a choice. Don't buy the product. I don't think linking
> advertising to taxing is accurate.
In Libertopia, where every good and service is advertised.. I have no choice.
> > You will probably say that that's a necessary freedom for the company to
> > charge what they want and spent their income as they choose, and I cannot
> > complain about that. I'd just rather not have to pay advertising-tax that's
> > all.
>
> Again, I don't think it is tax.
If you think of tax as something you have no choice but to pay, and no choice
as to how it is spent then.. well - it does depend on how you define it!
> Do you suggest government step in and make corporations not advertise anymore?
Nope!
I wasn't suggesting a solution to my grievance, advertising is a happy
compromise between two poles.
> I think, I could be wrong, are you suggesting you should research items like
> the corporation, etc.?
I'm not suggesting that you *should* do anything, you could if you chose to.
> You still seem to have bone to pick with Nestle.
*laughs*
I have been given a reason why I shouldn't buy Nestle products.
Sometimes I remember it before picking up a milky bar, sometimes I don't.
Having a grievance against Nestle would therefore be hypocritical.
> I guess I am frustrated with that you seem to be very ambiguous to where
> you stand on things, such as the Nestle thing, and it is hard to
> understand where you are coming from.
I am the wind, running through the grass, the distand sound of bells on a
sunday morning, the morning dew, the sparkle in a lovers eye, all of this and
less am I.
*ahem* Sorry.
I guess to some extent, if I don't mention it then I don't think that it's
relevent. If you ask me a direct question on something then I'll try and answer
it.
> > I'm sure the fact that I'm British doesn't help either.
>
> Well, we all can't be perfect! ;)
I know, but I'll try and factor-in your less-than-perfectness when
communicating with you ;) :)
> I think cultural issues are big,
> especially here at LUGNET, because we have a worldwide sampling. I think
> most of the issues we discuss are more of the US side, I am afraid. I
> don't know if some of the things here would work outside of the uS, and
> I don't know if that is a good thing or bad things sometimes.
Ah don't worry.. America just got a headstart getting online... your monopoly
will end vewy soon!
> > Also living there makes it harder to understand in some respects too.
>
> Hmm... this needs to be expanded, what do you mean?
That while living outside a system doesn't give you the inner picture, living
within a system and being influenced by it doesn't give you the whole picture
either. Mostly this will occur when your environment effects the way you
percieve things.
Growing up in a country where police and family members have guns, gives one a
different opinion to someone who has grown up in a country knowing that there
are hardly any guns around.
Who is right? One person has no experience of a society with guns, the other is
desensitised to a society with guns. Neither one of us can claim to know which
is more correct, but we *can* sit our sides of the scales and respect each
others views.
> Well, this a temperate zone. (Sorry, I have a hard time not quoting Monty
> Python when I hear that phrase, even when I say it!)
:)
Richard
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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| Richard, (...) Well, I think money (Which is a form of trading) has been around since the beginning of mankind. If man has nothing to trade with, which is 100% tax, I don't think it would work. I would that would happen, but we will see. (...) Well, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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