Subject:
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Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:18:32 GMT
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Viewed:
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3561 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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What you’re saying, in essence, is that if Democrats can’t come up with a
quick fix for a disaster that Bush has spent years creating, then somehow
the Democrats are at fault? Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.
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I don’t see an upside of leaving at this time, but I see a big downside.
What’s the rush? I think it is driven more by hatred for President Bush than
it is for a desire for the overall security of the US. Because the war is a
policy of President Bush, the left and dems (with a few noted exceptions)
must knee-jerkedly oppose it.
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Democrats aren’t, with a few noted exceptions, calling for immediate withdrawal,
so your question is misleading. Still, the benefits of departure would be many:
among them, we’d stop wasting billions of dollars each month; we’d get our
troops (whom Repubs claim to support) out of harm’s way; we would stop being an
occupying force; we would eliminate the perception that we’re tring to stir up
chaos (if not all out civil war); and on and on.
And to blame opposition to the war on hatred of Bush is dangerously naive
(though it doesn’t help that Bush has lied incessantly throughout the course of
the war) Knowledgeable military personnel have voiced their opposition, and
Bush has fired them. Knowledgeable civilian advisors have voiced their
opposition, and the RW echo chamber has ridiculed them incessantly (without
refuting their assertions, by the way). Congressional leaders have voiced their
opposition and have been castigated as “weak on terror” or cowardly.
There is a disturbing tendency on the Right to identify Bush the Person with
Bush’s Policies, and criticism of one is taken as criticism of the other.
That’s a false equation and should be abandoned.
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And there is no inconsistency between being tough on terror and withdrawing
our forces from Iraq. Only in the minds of Neocons and their apologists are
these two incompatible.
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How exactly would you say it is to be “tough on terror”?
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Prove to me that Iraq is currently a center of world terrorism. I’m not talking
about Sunnis and Shiites acting within Iraq’s borders--I’m talking about a
dangerous international threat originating within Iraq. Or do you suggest that
we act as the world’s policeman? And for how long?
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Please answer these two questions, for the record:
What would qualify as success in Iraq?
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The formation of a stable, democratic [1] state of Iraq.
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Not likely to occur in the next decade, at least.
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What would qualify as failure?
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A Lebanon-type situation, or a 1979 Iranian-type revolution.
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How about the ongoing civil war, which is indeed a civil war by any measure
except the one favored by Bushco? HOw about a decimated national infrastructure
coupled with a civilian bodycount numbering well into the hundreds each month in
Baghdad alone?
And here’s another question: What, specifically, would Bush have to do before
you’d say “you know, maybe he has made a royal mess of things?”
Dave!
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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| (...) Look at it as an investment in future security. Calculate the cost of a nucular (sic) detonation on one of our cities. (...) I don't think that the troops have a problem with this, so why on earth do the dems and the left have one? (...) We (...) (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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| (...) I don't see an upside of leaving at this time, but I see a big downside. What's the rush? I think it is driven more by hatred for President Bush than it is for a desire for the overall security of the US. Because the war is a policy of (...) (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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