Subject:
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Re: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:01:48 GMT
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Viewed:
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1850 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Laswell wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
> > But what I'm getting at is that if the basic tenets of Judeo-Christian
> > belief are themselves beholden to prior beliefs, then it is inaccurate to
> > claim that values descended from Judeo-Christianity are founded on
> > Judeo-Christianity.
>
> No it's not.
OK, what if it's equally valid to claim pagan-animist value system and
governance because those are the antecedent of Judaism?
> The conglomeration of various beliefs was a unique blend that
> resulted in a unique government. Other religious backgrounds could have
> conceivably produced similar governing systems, but not the exact set of
> words that we know as the U.S. Constitution.
But since several of the thinkers of the time were openly hostile to religion in
general and clearly not Christian (and certainly, not Jewish), perhaps atheist,
perhaps humanist, shouldn't we be claiming that our society/government/value
system/whatever is Judeo-Christian-humanist-atheist or something instead of
merely J-C? Surely these prominent men (you know...the ones who wrote the
Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers and the US Constitution
and stuff) should be included in understanding the foundational philosophies of
our nation.
> All religions including atheism
Why do you people continue to assert this falsehood?
re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.
1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded
as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and
worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
> > It would be like claiming that the fourth floor of a building has its
> > foundation on the third floor. It may be connected to the third floor, but
> > its foundation is lower (earlier).
>
> Ah, but when you decide to add a fifth floor, you build it on top of the
> fourth floor, not the basement, and your design choices will be limited by
> the layout of the fourth floor.
Actually, the basement, foundation, and footers are more important than the
fourth floor for this purpose. (Though certainly, your comment about design
choices and layout is true, but the basement is much more important.)
> > How so? 18-century Enlightenment informed about as much of our founding
> > policy as Judeo-Christian tradition. Why don't we trumpet our current
> > culture as "founded in the Enlightenment" instead?
>
> For the same reason why we don't trumpet our government's ancient Greek
> heritage. It's not the reason why we came here in the first place, and it's
> not the justification cited for declaring independance. Noone cared enough
> to make a big stink about it then, and noone does today either, except those
> who are trying to argue that it's somehow illegitimate to claim a
> Judeo-Christian heritage for the US government.
Wait, aren't you and John the ones making the "big stink" about it now? Dave is
merely pointing out that we're not in any meaningful way reliant on some
happenstancial ties to religions of the past.
And most people came here "in the first place" because they though they could
make a buck. And the DOI isn't founded on religious freedom. Our justifaction
cited is George III's "history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having
in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States."
No one cared then to make a big stink about our "Judeo-Christian heritage" but
they did about our Enlightenment ties. Most of the people who could write tried
studiously to avoid such silly religious distinctions.
Chris
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