Subject:
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Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:51:42 GMT
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Viewed:
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778 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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http://www.reason.com/hod/nr032604.shtml
If this article is to be believed we are losing the peace quite
spectacularly.
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Here again the age old question, which is worse, stable but evil leaders,
or democracy and instability. Similar thing happened in the Philippines,
Marcos was corrupt and evil, but his regime was stable.
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...and, like SH, Marcos was supported by Washington.
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I’ve always thought that this was a silly criticism, true twenty years ago,
during the Iran/Iraq war we supported Hussein as the lesser of two evils, you
act as if we furnished his palace and rolled out the red carpet. We often
have dealings with foreign leaders with whom we disagree, I really don’t see
the point.
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lol.
By “dealings”, I assume you mean give them WMD and help oppress their
populations?
BTW: Don’t forget, SH was the “lesser of two evils” during the 1991 uprising.
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As soon as he was removed chaos
ensued. Now many years later, they are better off, it just took a while.
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Forgive me, but I don’t remember the Philippines being invaded as part of an
illegal and immoral war to remove Marcos?
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First off the action in Iraq was no more illegal than any military action we
have taken since WWII, including Kennedy’s Vietnam or Truman’s Korea.
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Are you saying all post 1945 US military actions have been illegal? That is not
quite true.
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I
personally believe that this is the most moral war we have been involved in.
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What is moral about killing 10,000 civilians to remove one man and get some oil?
Tutu on the war:
“Who makes the decision about which regimes should be changed? And what
authority do they (Bush and Blair) have to do whatever they may think is right?
Or is it a matter of ‘might is right’ and to hell with the rule of international
law?”
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In a post 9/11 world the US president needs to adequately deal with all
threats.
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Just how was SH a threat? He could not even police his own country! The last 12
months have shown he was no threat… unless you’re worried about catching head
lice!
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He cannot simply bury his head in the sand and hope that no further
innocent American lives will be lost to terrorists.
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What is the link between Iraq in 2001 and terrorism?
Has the threat from Iraq now decreased?
Has the general threat to the US interests decreased?
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We are talking about a country that is tribal and brutal.
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It has been part of the occupation plan to fragment the population (divide
and conquer)... Bush sees tribalism as a benefit!
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Wow, now that is spin, encouraging Iraqi’s to rise up against their oppressor
is called divide and conquer.
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No. I did not say that. As an aside, I expect soon they will unite and “rise
up against their oppressor”.
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A country where
regional religious leaders run gang style groups who are not afraid of
lethal violence.
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Is Bush afraid to use “lethal violence”? Over 10,000 civilians have now
been killed; the deatils of around 700 may be found
here. At the start of the week he
deployed helicopter gunships in an urban area!
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I heard a radio interview with the creators of Iraqbodycount.net, they are a
clearly partisan group, whose research methods are suspect at best.
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So they deployed the helicopter gunships in an urban area?
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Basically
they look at all news sources for any mention of civilian casualties. They
make no attempt to verify the numbers, nor to ensure that they are not double
or triple counting the same casualties.
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They also use hospital records. How else can we get estimates of the dead
numbers when Bush puts so little value on their lives? He neither records nor
investigates their deaths.
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They are simply morbid hearse
chasers, using the event of accidental collateral damage to further their
cause, truly despicable.
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Is there a difference between “accidental collateral damage” and indiscriminate
use of force in urban areas.
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Secondly civilian casualties are difficult to avoid when armament is hidden
in hospitals and school houses;
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...or hotels are targeted when they are known only to be occupied by
journalists?
...or when 2000 pound bombs are used in urban areas?
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also a challenge when men who profess a
reverence for a religion hide in a mosque and shoot at soldiers from it’s
windows.
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None of that explains this.
Check the Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International Website; the truth will
enlighten you.
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Also a country whose leaders tell them that cutting themselves with
sabers and beating themselves with chains is a form of religious
expression. Not the easiest group to assist into the 21st century.
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Some of these things are a matter of culture. I’m sure they find the US porn
industry just as offensive.
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Agreed, although if they find US porn offensive, they would flip their lids
at some of that European stuff, our porn is relatively mild.
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Keep waving your flag.
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Now some Iraqis are saying that they were better off under Hussein, which
is truly no surprise as several freed blacks in this country felt more
secure as slaves. A key fact that is overlooked here however, at least
these Iraqis now have the right to complain about the state of affairs,
with out fear of serious repercussion.
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lol That is not quite true. The current Shia uprising started when Bush shut
down a newspaper he did not approve of! FACT: Bush is to blame for the
current uprising.
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This uprising did not start with the shut down of the newspaper, although
that did escalate it.
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Well, how did it start?
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I also do not believe that this uprising is completely
Shia, there have been several Syrians found among the combatants.
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Care to share your source?
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Also
someone else, either Iranian or Syrian is likely financing this whole
operation.
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lol. Care to share your source?
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Look I am not a blind Bush kool aid drinking follower,
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You fooled me.
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and I do not share his
optimism about the success of democracy in the middle east.
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So why cripple Iraq with a rigged constitution?
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It is really hard
to force a group of people accept freedom, actually a dichotomy in terms. I
supported this war because I agree with Bush, Blair, and all of the UN
security council that Iraq posed a threat,
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What was the threat that he posed?
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and after 9/11 the United States
can no longer afford to take any threat lightly.
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What if the easiest way to reduce the threat is sort out Palestine / Israel?
Scott A
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