Subject:
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Re: Iraq (was Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:02:33 GMT
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Viewed:
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1032 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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Look, if you want to sell democracy to the world, which is a want that your
country so obviously has, then you have to ‘believe’ (for lack of a better
word) in democracy.
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Actually, I have to believe in a Republic -- because that’s what we have.
Personally, I am not at all interested in what other nations do for govt. I
have no interst in selling democracy. Making the world free for democracy is
a misguided ambition in my view.
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Not so much in the ‘officialdom’ of your leaders.
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These other countries that you always bring up as cites haven’t lived the
‘democratic life’ for 200+ years.
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http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/ar00000_.html
Yeah, gee -- democracy in Argentina only goes back to 1853. How backward is
that? Those damn people are probably still living in caves!
I think Argentina formally abolished slave trading in something like 1813.
You may note Section 15 of their consitution states:
“In the Argentine Nation there are no slaves: the few who still exist shall
become free as from the swearing of his Constitution; and a special law shall
regulate whatever compensation this declaration may give rise to. Any
contract for the purchase and sale of persons is a crime for which the
parties shall be liable, as well as the notary or officer authorizing it. And
slaves who by any means enter the nation shall be free by the mere fact of
entering the territory of the Republic.”
Here’s section 21:
“Every Argentine citizen is obliged to bear arms in defense of the fatherland
and of this Constitution, in accordance with the laws issued by Congress and
the Decrees of the National Executive Power to this effect. Citizens by
naturalization are free to render or not this service for a period of ten
years as from the date they obtain naturalization papers.”
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Lovely words really. Words like “service” to the country, “defence of the
fatherland”... Would almost sound like a draft to me.
But I’m not up on all things Argentinian.
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It’s like a society that has a cure for a disease that eradicated a virulent
plague many generations ago--the plague is gone but people today still
insist on having that particular medicine in their house “just in case”.
The interesting part is that this medicine can kill sometime if used.
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It’s funny that you should mention that, because that’s exactly how I see the
right to bear arms -- basically in hibernation until needed. Frankly, I have
not ever understood the passionate opposition to this idea.
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I have no passionate opposition to putting guns in some sort of stasis field of
sorts--only having access to them when, as you say, they’re needed. But guns
aren’t put away until needed, they’re being used right now, as we speak, and
today 30 people are dead. Violently murdered not in defending the constitution,
nor in protecting the freedoms you cherish. Just dead.
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So if the disease is gone, why have the medicine?
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Well, it’s your analogy -- you do realize that we keep medicine on hand
against supposedly eradicated diseases, right? There’s no reason not to have
them in cold storage.
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Thanks. That is the crux of the matter. For one example, just where are those
small pox vials stored? What security measures are needed to get at those
vials? Could, say, a 4 year old walk up and take a vial and make his sister
drink it?
Further, how regulated is the industy that has those vials on hand, how trained
are the doctors and technicians who have access to them?
I recall a while back when someone thought it might be a good idea to give some
samples of small pox to other countries for their needs. And the furor that
erupted--what if some got stolen? What if some was accidentally released?
Every time people hear that there are places that have small pox in jars, the
call goes out to destroy the samples because of the almost non-existant chance
that small pox could get released to the public.
I would state right here and now that if a citizen, after passing thru the
security checks, and having the desire to exercise their right to ‘bear arms’
went thru training in the proper storage, usage and maintenance of said firearm,
and that the citizen have to attend military training and then would be legally
obligated to show that the weapon is maintained and secured properly at any time
during the ownership--as in “Well Regulated”--I’d have no problem.
That would be my only concession. It would satisfy, imho, the 2nd.
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You’re brainwashed into thinking guns solve problems. This is why you wish
to keep them. It really is the bottom line--your society truly believes
that guns solve problems.
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Nope. Wrong all the way. I see guns as an absolutely last resort to a
problem that I hope never arises. It is always the last resort, but I
wouldn’t hesitate to make use of that response should the need arise.
-- Hop-Frog
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You would haul out your gun as a last resort to solve your problems. It’s your
‘ace in the hole’. “When everything else goes wrong, all that is left is my
gun.” It is your saviour, it is your salvation. You just stated as much--the
“universal equalizer”. Nice faith.
Dave K
-who really shouldn’t “push buttons” at 1 a.m....
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