Subject:
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Re: Iraq (was Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:17:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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1265 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli wrote:
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Well, as Hop-Frog has pointed out numerous times, our founding fathers
stated quite clearly when asked that a militia was anyone that is not a
government offical.
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That’s true, and more than once I went to great lengths to make the point
crystal clear too, with lots of historical references:
2nd Amendment -- Bare
Bones
And gee, that cite is not even that old...last year.
I find it annoying when a debate regular like Kooties wants to start into
this area of debate at square one each and every time as if the matter had
not been amply settled previously.
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It hasn’t been amply settled. You are not a well regulated militia by any
standard of those words. It’s a point you consitently avoid--you and others cut
right to the “the rights of the people to own guns shall not be infringed”
Further, you also don’t deal with the point that the 2nd may, and probably
should, be deemed as archaic. It’s an anachronism to the past when it was
needed, and even then the people who owned guns were under the authority of
military officials, which, again, you ignore.
And on top of all that, you do not have the right to do detrimental actions to
society--this is where that fist you’re swinging back and forth comes in contact
with someone elses nose, which should be the trump card, for that’s the very
basis of democratic freedom. Well, you swinging your arm (owning your gun) is
coming in contact in violent homicidal ways to thousands of your fellow citicens
snip
Again, don’t take the idea of a non-response to your points as being indicative
of amply settling the debate. I, for myself, leave a topic due to a variety of
different reasons--distraction, whether other debates or rl issues, the feeling
of being down the road numerous times and jsut feel like stopping for a while to
recharge batteries, or sometimes just letting that ol’ dog just lie there for a
little while before the kicking begins again from both sides.
Poor ol’ dog :(
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perfectly happy to agree to disagree on the gun issue -- Kooties has
every right to abhor gun ownership and argue for change in that area. I am
less happy that he refuses to use legislative and historical intent to define
the plain meanings of the 2nd and 9th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. If
anything, I should think that more modern conceptions of rights should expand
and not further limit our civil liberties.
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Rights should expand. For example, in another thread recreational drugs were
mentioned. The use of these drugs shouldn’t be against the law. Making these
drugs legal would open up a whole other raft of issues--issues that we already
face with alcohol and cigarettes, so we’re pretty much ready for them. I also
believe it ouwld alleviate other issues such as reduce organized crime.
I can see that in the enforcing, and subsequent striking of, prohibition laws.
Sure we have to contend with disorderly drunks and drinking and driving, but, at
the same time, we don’t have to deal with Capones and their ilk.
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What annoys is where Kooties wants to argue something like: “a tomato is not
a fruit” when it plainly is a fruit. We get stuck circling around the
definition of words as if that were the arument itself, but doing so brings
nothing new into evidence -- Kooties rejects the plain meaning of
Constitutional language, and we insist on it’s plain meaning. Big whoop!
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I insist! I absolutely insist on the plain meaning of words! This high
falutin’ lingo gives me a headache!
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This is asked and answered on both sides. I don’t want to spoil anyone’s
fun, but is there anything new here to discuss?
-- Hop-Frog
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Nyaah. Nothing to see here--move along.
Dave K
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