Subject:
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Re: For some Lego is a religous experience. (Was: Re: Quantifying and Classifying the LEGO Community)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 21 Apr 2003 01:48:38 GMT
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Viewed:
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2503 times
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First off, I'm joining in here because I agree with part of Terry's opinion.
I'm not speaking for him, I just hate it when this kinda thing happens. I
don't know him and am speaking only in regards to this particular topic.
Now then...
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Matt Hein writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Terry Prosper writes:
>
> > I was, in fact asking this question because I don't approve of children
> > being dragged to church by their parents. Religion (or absemce of) should
> > be a decision that we make alone, without the parental influence.
>
> Wait a moment here...with the logic you're advocating
> you claim:
>
> Parents shouldn't drag their children into situations
> they may not be competent to decide for themselves.
>
> With such logic, you can also bring this argument
> to say that kids should't be forced into school,
> community groups, social gatherings or extracuricular
> activities since they can't 'decide for themselves'.
I think you're right only in that kids should be forced into school. They
do, after all, have to learn something in order to make sense of the rest of
their lives. As for the rest, let the kids decide for themselves.
> Terry, that's a load of crap.
>
> > We all know that people believe in what their parents believe
> > 99,9% of the time. This, to me, is a bad thing.
>
> Why is it so bad, so evil, for parents to impose
> their beliefs to their children? So, you're saying
> that children should be given the choice for
> themselves to engage in whatever beliefs they
> want?
When a kid is old enough and smart enough to know what he wants, let him/her
do that. As long as it doesn't involve anything illegal of course. That's
what makes America a great nation at the heart of it. (yes, I am involving
patriotism here, yes, I'm american, and hell yes I love this country) It's
what makes democracy great. Options.
> Many parents have high expectations of their
> offspring, and to forgo everything in favor of
> political correctness could destroy the very
> fragment of the family structure. Would I want
> my kid to skip church while I attend, just because
> politicians claim he doesn't understand?
I think it's about choices.
> Of course not.
>
> Sounds to my like a damned left wing/ atheist
> conspiracy.
Why is everyone so eager to blaim atheists (I'm agnostic, btw)? There is
nothing wrong with having a different opinion. See my above for the rest.
> > I'd wish that children couldn't go in any religious
> > building before a certain age so that they can choose fr
> > themselves when they are old enough to decide if they
> > want to be part of this or not.
>
> What?!!! You're obviously missing something up there,
> Terry...it's called prudence. Let me tell you about it.
>
> Families should hold the discretion to tell their
> children to participate in youth groups/ religious
> activities *because* such interaction with society
> (with the family as a whole) contributes to the
> family structure in its entirety. To deny the parents
> the right to choose for their children whether
> or not to bringthem to a religious service is
> completely ludicrous!
>
> Sure, at a certain age, children may be considered
> 'competent' enough to choose for themselves, their
> religious identity, but in ninety nine percent of
> cases, the parents have the best interests in mind
> for their offspring. Attending religious services
> encourages social interaction and goodwill towards
> others. Why, in gods name, is that so evil to you?
*sigh* Christianity, great in idea, flawed in execution. Then again, so is
any religion. I do think though, that parents should be allowed to instill
morals in their children. This, unfortunately Terry, may require church.
> > By trying to teach a child something, you almost
> > automatically force it to them if they are in the
> > proper environment. So you could consider my
> > question as a rethorical blame.
>
> No, you're just misguided...children aren't forced
> to believe in god, but they are *encouraged*.
Hah! Bullcrap. I was forced into church today by my mother.
> God
> gives children a rock to place their faith within,
> incentive to perform good deeds for society and
> their compatriots.
So would moral values without the "god" aspect.
> Would the local priest at my chapel
> threaten to crucify someone if they refused to believe
> in god.
Probably.
> > Especially using LEGO braicks, a toy that children love, to
> > illustrate your opinion, this to me is a especially sad.
>
> I cannot relate to that...
>
> > I just don't understand why religious people can't live there religion alone
> > for themselves, why they feel compell to harass others about what they feel,
> > how they see things... If I was to act like that, all my posts would end
> > with my own beliefs:
>
> Again, what are you talking about? I don't see priests
> wandering about my streets, holding banners denouncing
> atheists. If anything, the harassment is coming from
> you, since you're using political correctness to compell
> the other side to question god...that leads to youth
> rebellion, poor decisions and a generally higher crime
> rate.
What do you say then Matt, about those zealots on the street who "preach the
word of the lord?" Oh, and religious people usually are not so perfect
outside of church. A favorite quote of mine: "be a good littl christian
boy, or I'll slap the snot out of you!" Forget where I got it, but I do see
it all the time.
> Did you know that satanists usually end their lives
> in a seppaku fashion? Scary...it's because they're
> misguided. God serves as the beacon to guide
> distressed travellers to solid spiritual ground.
>
> > God doesn't exist. If he did, he'd be a real ass-hole letting all those
> > people suffer.
Hehe, agreed.
> You're a world class idiot, Terry.
>
> Have you ever heard the expression 'god serves those
> whom help themselves?'
> It's not like you can just sit there, magically hold
> your hands in the air when armed soldiers pass you and
> say 'god help me', then expect your enemy to drop dead.
> God can be epitomized as the driving force, the spiritual
> incentive some get to find the best in humanity and conquer
> the oppression around them. Did moses cry and ask for god
> to magically help him when the jews were under tribulation in
> egypt? Of course not, he confronted pharoh and demanded
> rights for the jews. If he would have say there, nothing
> would have happened.
>
> Action [1] begets results, not inaction. Think MLK or
> Mahatma Ghandi...or even Jesus :)
>
> > But if I did that, expressing my opinion, then I'd be accused to provoque.
> > To me, "Jesus loves you" and all that crap is provoquing, but when I dare
> > say so, I get flamed and accused of intolerance...
>
> Of course, due to the inherent fact you are intolerant.
Don't you just love how tolerant those wonderful religious folk are?
> You think you can just blatantly let forth all
> of your 'I hate conservative/ religion rhetotoric'
> crap, but never back it up with solid evidence,
> (as with your trade odds with John Neal) and expect
> others to flock to your side in pity of you and your
> left wing nonsense.
>
> Pathetic.
>
> <<_Matt Hein_>>
> Fellow christian enthusiast
I knew this kind of open-mindedness could only come from a christian!
> [1] If you take action into context as violence,
> that's showing you're only considering one side.
> It works on a case by case basis.
Oh, and btw, I'm 15. How's that for being competent?
-Stefan-
If I offended anyone, umm...oops. Oh well. I'm American, and entitled to a
damn opinion. As is anyone else.
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